TargetTalk

Currently I'm using a Hill hand pump but considering going to a scuba tank since there is a dive shop only 15 minutes away. For those using tanks can you tell or show me via photos or links of what fitting / valve / adapter I would need. This would only be used for pistol cylinders so I don't think I need a hose, just not sure what valve or fitting I would need to mount on the tank that would accept my cylinders as the Hill hand pump does.

Thanks

The typical setup for 200 bar cylinders starts with a SCUBA tank with a "K"" valve, and then you buy a K valve to 200 bar DIN adapter. You can get a straight DIN valve, but they are usually 300 bar. You need a DIN plug adapter to fill 200 bar cylinders, and SCUBA shops will automatically refill the tank to 300 bar unless you specifically ask (and watch them). That can be risky, and eliminates some nice options (like a good gauge and a bleed valve).

The nicest setup (which may be overkill for you) is a fill adapter with a good pressure gauge (the ones on the cylinders are notoriously variable), and a push button bleed adapter from Best Fittings in England:

https://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shop/air ... ton-bleed/

You want the one with no hose. Depending on the brand of cylinder, you can either fill it, close the tank valve and then hit the push-button bleed valve, or you may have to unscrew the cylinder a turn or so and then bleed it. Removing the cylinder the rest of the way with no pressure on the threads saves a lot of wear & tear, especially on aluminum threads.

Next, you need a 200 bar DIN adapter:

https://www.bestfittings.co.uk/shop/fil ... -bsp-male/

If you ask, they will assemble them for you. I ordered the 2 pieces separately and ended up without the high pressure washer that goes in between. The team I coach now has three of these. The gauge is especially important if your cylinders have no gauge (like Hammerli AP20's & 480K's)

Is this just an overpriced option with everything I need or a good way to go? https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/air-cy ... -air-tank/

Up to you. You will have to be VERY careful so you do not overfill the cylinder on your air pistol. The upside is you will be able to have dozens of refills where you can get it to 200bar/3,000 psi. On an aluminum tank they can only hold 3,000 psi so every time you fill a cyclinder you will get less air in. Not a problem, just something to watch out for.

I do not like carbon fiber tanks because they cannot be hydrostated after 10 years and reused. With an aluminum tank you can get them retested every 10 years and the tank will outlive you.

Do NOT buy a steel tank as they cannot hold 3,000 psi ...something like 2450 psi as I remember.

Timberwerks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:28 am Is this just an overpriced option with everything I need or a good way to go? https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/air-cy ... -air-tank/

You still need a DIN adapter, but you can take that off the Hill pump. As said, buying a tank system whose pressure rating far exceeds your cylinders rating will give you more fills, but one slip and you are dealing with a bomb.

What I'd love to see is a fill adapter with a fixed 200 bar limiting regulator that would allow safe use of high pressure SCUBA tanks. Best Fittings has paintball tanks with fixed regulators, but they are all for lower pressures. I just sent a suggestion to Best Fittings that they investigate supplying such a setup.

The team I coach has four SCUBA tanks (soon to be 6), all of which have to be filled to 200 bar. That means a lot more trips to the SCUBA shop to get them filled than if we could use 300 bar tanks.

Timberwerks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:28 am Is this just an overpriced option with everything I need or a good way to go? https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/air-cy ... -air-tank/

Hell, no!

Go to a dive shop and buy a full, used 3000psi (200 BAR) tank. Bring your adapter and they may be able to fix you up. WAAYY cheaper and less danger.

I use a small tank and an adapter that came with the gun

Hello-

There are, actually, steel tanks designed to hold 3000 psi. Champions Choice sells one specifically to the air rifle/air pistol community-

http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... s&item=S80

We are using the tanks from Champions Choice, along with a set up from Best Fittings, that allows for bleed off prior to removing the pistol cylinder from the connectors. Described here-

viewtopic.php?t=59779&p=287531#p287531

If you are going to have a dive shop fill the tank after purchase, buy your tank from them. They will often throw in the first inspection and fill and you will save money.

Question, will a tank that holds 3000 psi fill a cylinder to 3500 psi?

Timberwerks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:39 pm Question, will a tank that holds 3000 psi fill a cylinder to 3500 psi?

No. The tanks equalize when they are connected. Whatever is in the dive tank is close to what you will have in the cylinder. Each fill, the dive tank has less compressed air in it so the cylinder fill is reduced.

I wonder if in the long run it's better to just get a compressor and save filling fees and drive time. https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Compressor.html

Price-wise it does not make sense to buy a compressor. Also dive shops remove the moisture from the air so your tanks have very little moisture. That said, I bought my own compressor (got mine from Pyramid). Spent about what yours sells for. If I could do it over I would have bought two tanks. One big, the other small, and stuck with the Dive Shop.

Chip

ChipEck wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:56 pm Price-wise it does not make sense to buy a compressor. Also dive shops remove the moisture from the air so your tanks have very little moisture. That said, I bought my own compressor (got mine from Pyramid). Spent about what yours sells for. If I could do it over I would have bought two tanks. One big, the other small, and stuck with the Dive Shop.

Chip

Thanks for the advice! I sent an email to my local dive shop about direct purchase of tank & fill cost.

I use a yong heng compressor. Cost me $350 cdn. I use it daily and it is excellent.

I purchased a FX hand pump in 2002 when I bought my first PCP rifle and continued to use that pump until a few years ago, nothing wrong with it. The price of compressors have significantly dropped over the last few years and there are many low cost options available. $1000 used to be the cheapest option available. Now there are options as low as $299 that fill to 4500 psi.
I purchased a shoebox F10 compressor for $499 and fill directly to my guns. My compressor fills up to 300 bar but all three of my PCP airguns only use 200 bar. With my hand pump I simply wasn't "enjoying" my precision airguns like I wanted to.
It is amazing the amount of shooting I do now that I have "free" air to fill my tanks. I used to dread pumping my tanks up. Now it is a non issue for me. I now shoot 6-8000 pellets a month with no worries. With my hand pump I would shoot about 1000 pellets a month.
Filling my LP50 tanks take about a minute. Filling a FWB700 tank from empty takes about 3 minutes.

Steel scuba tanks not able to hold 3000psi ?
I must have an unusual one, mine is a Faber scuba steel 230 bar (3335 psi) tank. They also make steel 300 bar tanks. The 230 bar tank has the same fittings as a 200 bar one. The fitting that comes with the pistol attaches directly to the tank. I can check my tank gauges are working by comparing to the hand pump gauge. My tank can do DIN or yoke style connection. If you can fill locally I would buy a tank and get filtered moisture free air. 8000 pellets a month, clearly I am not practicing enough.

KH250 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:02 pm 8000 pellets a month, clearly I am not practicing enough.

Most of my shooting is done with my LP50 shooting falling plates and silhouette. She sure can eat up a tin of pellets in a hurry!

KH250 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:02 pm Steel scuba tanks not able to hold 3000psi ?
I must have an unusual one, mine is a Faber scuba steel 230 bar (3335 psi) tank. They also make steel 300 bar tanks. The 230 bar tank has the same fittings as a 200 bar one. The fitting that comes with the pistol attaches directly to the tank. I can check my tank gauges are working by comparing to the hand pump gauge. My tank can do DIN or yoke style connection. If you can fill locally I would buy a tank and get filtered moisture free air. 8000 pellets a month, clearly I am not practicing enough.

I stopped diving in late 70s. At the time aluminum were the only tanks that could hold 3000psi. You are right, tanks have come a long way. Maybe because I witnessed the damage a tank can do when overfilled ( it is similar to a bomb going off) but I will never trust carbon fiber no matter what anyone else says. That is why I never ever store a tank where sunlight can beat on it. Sunlight=heat, heat increases pressure.

Chip

Good video for filling ap cylinders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daaKPs0EqUs

Why buy a 3000psi tank when you are filling the cylinder to 3000psi? You get ONE fill to 3000 while all subsequent fills will be LESS than 3000.

e.g., if you have the 100 cu ft tank you linked from AOA, and it's filled to 4500psi, you will get 93 fills to 3000psi from 1000psi (assuming the ap cylinder holds 75cc which is the volume of a full size Steyr ap cylinder).

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Tanks/FillCalc.html

Most dive and some paintball shops can fill to 4500psi, or close to it after settle (cooling) time. Think I paid $8 at a dive shop the last time I had my 97 cu ft carbon fibre tank filled a couple years ago. I have since bought a compressor as I have several rifles that fill to 250 bar (3625psi).

So, from I'm learning from this so far is dive shops can't fill your tank while you wait? With all things considered it's looking more like a compressor is the way to go for my situation. I may get involved with field target at some point as well. From the bit of research I've had time to do so far I think this would be my first pick: https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Compressor.html