TargetTalk

Hello All,

I know that Morini 162ei front sights are available in different widths. I'm wondering if they also come in different heights. I haven't been able to find anything on this, but seem to recall a post quite some time ago in which some one mentioned that they fabricated 3D printed sights.

TIA for your help.

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman in Prescott

Hello-

The Morini front sights are not expensive, and are easy to find. You could shim one for more height, or grind it a little for less height.

My question, what is the issue you are trying to correct, or compensate for? It is quite possible the issue may have nothing to do with the sights, at all.

Kind regards,
m1963

OK, here we go, and I hope I don't get clubbed over the head for this.

I have been using a sub-six hold since I first read about it several years ago, and I have an incredibly hard time focusing on the front sight and disregarding the black of the target. I generally shoot in the mid-80s with not so tight groups and a number of fliers. Most of this is due, IMHO, to triggering issues related to trying to make the sight picture "too perfect" which leads to chicken finger, over holding, etc.

I have noticed that when I warm up by aiming at a blank wall I have no problem achieving good sight alignment and pressing the trigger in a fairly short period of time with little disturbance in the sight alignment. When I warm up I dry fire a few times at a blank wall, then dry fire again at the top of the target, then dry fire again using a sub-six hold. I can easily release the shots when aiming at the wall or the top of the target, but not so much when using the sub-six hold. I thought, "Why not use an "above-12" hold and see what happens.

Tonight I readjusted my sights to accommodate the higher hold and found that I was easily able to release shots when aiming above the bullseye because I couldn't see it. I shot much tighter groups using this method with a couple of called fliers. However, with the sights adjusted all the way to the down limit, my groups were still above the 10 ring. As an experiment, I installed a 1.2mm thick washer below the front sight and tried again and came up with a good group near where it should be. However, with the group roughly centered and the sights at their bottom limit, I thought that it might be good to have a slightly taller sight to allow for some adjustment. Additionally, the washer raised the front sight above the channel in which it fits, permitting some rotation of the sight in not careful.

Therefore, I am looking for a front sight that is roughly 2mm - 2.5mm taller than the stock 162ei sight to continue my experiment. I realize that this is a totally unorthodox approach and that I should probably learn to accept a less than perfect sight picture with the sub-six hold. Nevertheless, based on three 10-shot groups that I realize are not statistically significant I'd like to pursue this a bit further.

On another thread here:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=14534

I read that Morini sights used for the CM 22, 102, and CM84 are taller than those on the 162ei and that they would fit into the 162ei. Thus, I'm looking for a sight from one of these to fit to my gun to see what happens.

Thanks for the help.

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman in Prescott.

It sounds like the Front Sight is not the problem, but your shooting glasses or lack of is the problem.
If you use a correct shooting lens then the sight will be sharp and clear and the target slightly blurred.

Without spending money- cut a shim from the top of a coffee can lid, and add it, to see if this makes a difference. If it does change things, order a new sight to match.

Another thought, after years (decades, actually) of shooting with both eyes open at work, I finally started shooting with both eyes open during competition. It was a revelation to me. I can now accurately center the front sight in the middle of the rear sight, and it just looks/feels normal. My scores did not just creep up, they shot up. It is unorthodox in competion, but you may want to give it a try.

If you want to try a taller front sight, black electrical tape and a few minutes with a razor blade gets you tbere. I dont understand why you would hold above the black, but tbsre you go

David M wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:13 pm It sounds like the Front Sight is not the problem, but your shooting glasses or lack of is the problem.
If you use a correct shooting lens then the sight will be sharp and clear and the target slightly blurred.

I have a pair of Champion shooting glasses with a custom prescription .25 diopter lens to take care of astigmatism and a .5 diopter lens on top of it. Together they bring the front sight into sharp focus while the target is blurry. Nevertheless, when addressing the target my vision switches between the front sight and target. I also get hung up on "sight picture" and try too hard for perfection. This inhibits my ability to release the shot confidently when in the correct area. I end up holding too long and eventually end up making a poor shot as often as not. Lately I've been focusing on maintaining perfect sight alignment while accepting my wobble in the sub-six aiming area. I've seen some improvement, but it's still incredibly difficult for me to avoid the dreaded chicken finger syndrome.

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman

m1963 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:27 pm I finally started shooting with both eyes open during competition. It was a revelation to me. It is unorthodox in competion, but you may want to give it a try.

Not unorthodox, I would say it`s fairly common. May limit body sway, too.

dulcmr-man wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:02 pm I have an incredibly hard time focusing on the front sight and disregarding the black of the target.

A common problem that is.

dulcmr-man wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:02 pm I can easily release the shots when aiming at the wall or the top of the target, but not so much when using the sub-six hold. I thought, "Why not use an "above-12" hold and see what happens.

This method was used by some free pistol shooters. Some very good ones at that, eastern europeans.
Today, "bottom hold" is favored for free pistol, by many. For AP, " very low sub-six" hold, is gaining favor, I experience. Aiming inn the 2 - 3 ring. Consistent canting, or lack of canting, is then important.

dulcmr-man wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:02 pm Tonight I readjusted my sights to accommodate the higher hold and found that I was easily able to release shots when aiming above the bullseye because I couldn't see it. I shot much tighter groups using this method.

"I have a pair of Champion shooting glasses with a custom prescription .25 diopter lens to take care of astigmatism and a .5 diopter lens on top of it. Together they bring the front sight into sharp focus while the target is blurry. Nevertheless, when addressing the target my vision switches between the front sight and target. I also get hung up on "sight picture" and try too hard for perfection. "

OK, we are on the right track. A +0.5 diopter lens with -0.25 astigmatism gives you a lens at 0.5 on one axis and only 0.25 on the other.
This lens may be too weak, you need to go stronger to a +0.75 /-0.25.
This will give you 0.75 on one axis and 0.5 on the other. It will bring the focal point closer to the foresight and add more blur to the target.
For the cost of a lens it is worth a try, if it is too much then just keep it for a couple of years till you get older.

I should have been more clear about my shooting glasses. The prescription lens that eliminates astigmatism is a "+" .25 diopter. Coupled with the +.5 I have a total of +.75 which seems to work pretty well. Sight is sharp and target is fuzzy.

Another post mentioned shooting with both eyes open. I shoot right handed but am strongly left eye dominant. Didn't discover this until late into my shooting career and I just deal with it by occluding my left eye.

Lastly, another post mentioned adding a shim under the front sight. I did this using a 1.1 mm washer under the front sight before posting initially. This arrangement brought my groups from the top of the black into the center, but with the rear sight dialed all the way down. Therefore, I'm looking for a sight that's about 2.0 mm to 2.5 mm taller than my existing sight so that I can come up off of dead bottom at least a few clicks. I am aware that Morini sells additional sights for the 162, but I believe they are all the same height and differ only in their widths. If that's not correct please let me know.

I have also read that front sights for the CM22, 102, and a free pistol are all higher than the stock sight and that they will fit on my 162. I'm now looking for a source for those. If anyone is aware of one, please chime in.

Thanks for all the great advice.

Dennis, aka Dulcmrman

Check you lens script, the first figure is the base lens ie. + 0.5.
The second figure is the lens correction ground off the base lens (not added) ie. -0.25
The third figure will be the axis of the astigmatism ie. 110 degrees (starts from the nose and rotates up and outwards, looking from behind), so 110 degrees from behind for the right eye is 20 degrees outward from vertical.
Your +0.5/-0.25 lens has a mean power of only 0.375, go up a lens.
If it has been over two years get your eyes re-tested.

"I have been using a sub-six hold since I first read about it several years ago, and I have an incredibly hard time focusing on the front sight and disregarding the black of the target. I generally shoot in the mid-80s with not so tight groups and a number of fliers. Most of this is due, IMHO, to triggering issues related to trying to make the sight picture "too perfect" which leads to chicken finger, over holding, etc.

I have noticed that when I warm up by aiming at a blank wall I have no problem achieving good sight alignment and pressing the trigger in a fairly short period of time with little disturbance in the sight alignment."

Your opening post is telling me you need a little more de-focus, your focal point now is about half way down range, go up in power to bring it to about a metre in front of the foresight.

David M wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:11 pm Check you lens script, the first figure is the base lens ie. + 0.5.
The second figure is the lens correction ground off the base lens (not added) ie. -0.25
The third figure will be the axis of the astigmatism ie. 110 degrees (starts from the nose and rotates up and outwards, looking from behind), so 110 degrees from behind for the right eye is 20 degrees outward from vertical.
Your +0.5/-0.25 lens has a mean power of only 0.375, go up a lens.
If it has been over two years get your eyes re-tested.

"I have been using a sub-six hold since I first read about it several years ago, and I have an incredibly hard time focusing on the front sight and disregarding the black of the target. I generally shoot in the mid-80s with not so tight groups and a number of fliers. Most of this is due, IMHO, to triggering issues related to trying to make the sight picture "too perfect" which leads to chicken finger, over holding, etc.

I have noticed that when I warm up by aiming at a blank wall I have no problem achieving good sight alignment and pressing the trigger in a fairly short period of time with little disturbance in the sight alignment."

Your opening post is telling me you need a little more de-focus, your focal point now is about half way down range, go up in power to bring it to about a metre in front of the foresight.

Thank you, David. I will try that later today.

"I finally started shooting with both eyes open during competition. It was a revelation to me. It is unorthodox in competion, but you may want to give it a try." m1963

"Not unorthodox, I would say it`s fairly common. May limit body sway, too." northpaw

Interesting, really! I shoot competition with both eyes open the same way I shoot at work. Nothing is occluding my off eye, and I do not use specialty shooting glasses, with blinders. In fact, I square up on the sights and look directly at them, with both eyes.

I do not ever remember seeing anyone shoot in competition, with both eyes open and no shooting glasses occluding the off eye. I am not using any diopter correction, etc. I am absolutely certain I am not the first person to do this. I just have never seen anyone else do this, and wish I had seen others doing it many years earlier. It would have helped me, immensely. The only reason I started shooting this way is the shooting glasses and blinders were not working for me.

Its pretty simple really ,the problem is not your front sight , the problem is your focus and concentration .
you are subconsciously allowing your focus to look at the target and not the sight , basic principle of target shooting.
By changing your focal point on target or altering your front sight you are just covering over your bad habit.
you need to train your brain to accept that the shot will go were it needs to go by focusing on the front sight and not the target.
When you achieve this the shot will almost feel effortless.
Cheers S

scausi wrote: ↑Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:41 pm Its pretty simple really ,the problem is not your front sight , the problem is your focus and concentration .
you are subconsciously allowing your focus to look at the target and not the sight , basic principle of target shooting.
By changing your focal point on target or altering your front sight you are just covering over your bad habit.
you need to train your brain to accept that the shot will go were it needs to go by focusing on the front sight and not the target.
When you achieve this the shot will almost feel effortless.
Cheers S

I totally agree with your assessment and I've pretty much always known what the problem is. The issue for me is HOW to fix it. I'd appreciate input from anyone that might have some ideas regarding a training exercise or regimen that will help me to fixate on the front sight while ignoring the target. My shooting glasses give me a sharp front sight and a fuzzy target and I try to concentrate on perfect "sight alignment" instead of "sight picture" while aiming sub-six. Nevertheless, I am aware of the relationship of my sights to the fuzzy target and have a difficult time releasing the shot because the sight picture is never quite perfect enough. Are there physical exercises I can use? Psychological tricks? Or...?

TIA,

Dennis