TargetTalk

I would like to buy a pistol from a shop in France, and get it to the USA. Is there any way this can be done? Third party intermediary? Shop to shop? Buy as a tourist?

Any help would be appreciated.

One type of FFL allows the dealer to import firearms. This is not easy, cheap or quick. Earlier this year I took delivery of two pistols specially imported for me from Germany. It took about 18 months.

The penalties for violating the rather complicated US laws are really scary. In order to do this you also have to deal with the European bureaucracy.

NuJudge wrote:One type of FFL allows the dealer to import firearms. This is not easy, cheap or quick. Earlier this year I took delivery of two pistols specially imported for me from Germany. It took about 18 months.

The penalties for violating the rather complicated US laws are really scary. In order to do this you also have to deal with the European bureaucracy.

Yeah, there's some serious treaties, statutes, regs and policies in place in regards to importing/exporting firearms. I didn't even touch on it in my guides on firearm transfers for lawyers and just told them to go find an importer FFL instead. And please don't take this as a slight to you, but even if I knew about international transfers, I wouldn't give advice about it on a forum. I really think it's in your best interest to go talk to an importer FFL about your specific situation.

mudhenk27 wrote:I would like to buy a pistol from a shop in France, and get it to the USA. Is there any way this can be done? Third party intermediary? Shop to shop? Buy as a tourist?

Any help would be appreciated.

It usually is not a big deal. You have to submit ATF Form 6 to ATF several months in advance. That gets the gun into the country to your local FFL who actually transfers it to you.
See https://www.atf.gov/file/11381/download for the form.

Okay I am pretty laid back most of the time but I am dead serious when I say don't screw with this stuff. Fair disclosure, I am not involved in the firearms industry directly, so if the practice is different from the laws, I have no control over that. But I can read rules, and there's some things wrong with what was just said.

You have to be an FFL importer to import under the Gun Control Act. Non-licensees cannot submit a Form 6 to the ATF to bring a firearm into the country. It is a crime to import without an FFL under 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(3).

Here's Form 6:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail ... ammunition

If you look at Form 6, it clearly is designed to be filled out by an FFL, not a civilian. Also, on the instructions, under #7 it states that:

An unlicensed person may obtain a permit to import sporting type ammunition (excluding tracer or incendiary) and firearm parts (other than frames, receivers or actions) without engaging the services of a Federal firearms licensee, provided that the importation is for his personal use and not for resale

That's all a non-FFL can do. A regular FFL can do a limited transfer for "sporting firearms," but only to themselves:

3. A Federal firearms licensee other than an importer, may make an occasional importation of sporting firearms or ammunition (excluding surplus military) for himself or an unlicensed person in the licensee's State, provided that the firearms and ammunition are intended for personal use of the person for whom imported and not for resale. ATF Form 6 - Part I (5330.3A) is used to obtain approval for such importation

If your local FFL is using that to transfer the firearm to you, they are committing a crime.

This is just a small part of the intricacies. It's not including importation requirements by the secretary of state (they have lists of firearms and what they accept from different countries) and we haven't even discussed the other side of the equation: France's laws. European nations are FAR stricter than the U.S. when it comes to gun control. Expect this and worse unless you are already in network and know how things work.

Again, I strongly suggest working with an importer FFL. Here's further reading.

Find a friendly dealer in the U.S., coordinate with him. Buy in Europe, pay. Ship from them to the U.S. dealer on a Form 6. Transfer to you IAW Federal and state laws.

Alternate: Work through an importer (I'd ask Pilkguns first). They get the gun into the country, ship it to your local dealer.

There is a poster here who goes by "J". I don't know if he is one of the Men in Black or not but he sells European pistols that I believe he imports. You might want to send him a message.

You could try JimE too.

First, be prepared to wait months. After you have everything aligned. I had an FFL import on my behalf (form 6). And it's about a 3-4 month wait (that is just for form 6).

You'll need an Arms exporter in France. They need to be licensed to export (I had an export from Germany). They will want to be paid. And they will have a period of time for approval of their paperwork.

Now the difficult part, shipping. Since ITAR, all the reasonable shippers (ie DHL) won't ship. You will need to go private. Could be $500 for a 50Kg box (did I mention that the box must follow EU standards?).

Once arrived it goes into US Customs. Where forms must be filled out (and every day it's left in storage costs, say $50/day?). Customs also has fees.

Once your US FFL/Importer clears Customs it's then a normal US FFL transaction.

I've had this performed for me 3x (4-6 years ago) just as ITAR took effect.

The Importers that do this, buy in bulk (30-40 items) to cut down on the cost per piece.

I don't think JimE does firearms.

My recommendation is to find an existing Importer,. Maybe they have a similar item. If you go at it be prepared to wait (process can take 12 months) and pay$$$$$. Find an Importer, call and talk to them (one in Geneso? IL).

Someone on here asked this question about two (?) years ago and I think I responded.

With international laws changing all the time, the above process may have changes. Please consult both a lawyer and Importer.

chuckjordan wrote:With international laws changing all the time, the above process may have changes. Please consult both a lawyer and Importer.

I appreciate the need to consult with a lawyer (since I am one), but I can honestly tell you that no lawyer I know of would be able to tell you anything worthwhile about this area. It's just not a type of law that comes across your average Joe, esq.'s desk, and something like this is scary enough that no lawyer wants the malpractice risk associated with making the few thousand dollars (yes you read that number right) off of your advisement.

I'm an estate planning attorney in SC, and the only attorneys in SC that I could find online related to this was a law firm or two that had customs work as a specialty. They worked in Charleston, which is a major port. Based on their websites, I strongly suspect their business model is set up for importers and manufacturers importing barrels, receivers etc., not civillians, and their prices and services may not fit what you're looking for.

Now personally, I'd love to figure out how to get involved in an area of law like this (it looks fascinating and is about my hobby!) but there's no way that I or any general practice lawyer is going to pretend that we know anything about the "wonderful" world of customs.

These guys/gals import. Talk to their Import staff (Michael or Steven?? Forget his name as it's been 6 years). You may even see what you like there and it will save you the hassle.
http://www.simpsonltd.com/

If you like logistics, have a go at working the process (legal). Be prepared to wait a long time (one of my purchases took 14 months to get) however, I collected a hard-to-find falling block. Research and double check. Since this is only performed by a few Importers in the US, information must be sought.

As much as I'd like to recommend using our Host's services, I don't think Scott performs this.

I have always found US Customs/Border officials well adjusted/amicable humans. Just throw it in the post.

don't actually do this

A Form-6 import is not that hard or complicated, it's just that it's unfamiliar and most 01-FFL's don't want to be bothered with it.

You (or your local 01-FFL) fills out Form 6. (Wherever I say "you" I mean this is a clerical task you can do to make it easier on your 01-FFL)

Local 01-FFL mails it, with license information, to BATFE.

Wait. Wait.

Form 6 comes back (approved, hopefully) to local 01-FFL from BATFE.

You (or 01-FFL) sends completed/approved Form 6 to overseas dealer. Wait.

Overseas dealer places copies of approved Form 6 in box with firearm, ships. (This is now an issue, since most foreign postal services now unwilling to ship firearms) Wait.

Customs in US checks box, takes one copy of Form 6 for their records, forwards box to your 01-FFL. Wait.

Local 01-FFL contacts you and you pick up gun after passing background check in usual fashion.

TomAmlie wrote:A Form-6 import is not that hard or complicated, it's just that it's unfamiliar

So true. No matter how complicated the laws or process, it just comes down to getting the process right and having enough patience for the bureaucracy to wind it's way through to delivering the required documentation for the next step.

What is nearly always missing is a clear succinct step-by-step description and an easy way to track where in the process any individual action is in the process.

Everyone that wants to import ends up reading all the legalese and being unsure of the next step, or pays a fortune to someone who has the workflow figured out.

National organisations are lacking in my opinion because they should have very clear how-to directions that anyone could follow.

Chia wrote: A regular FFL can do a limited transfer for "sporting firearms," but only to themselves:

3. A Federal firearms licensee other than an importer, may make an occasional importation of sporting firearms or ammunition (excluding surplus military) for himself or an unlicensed person in the licensee's State, provided that the firearms and ammunition are intended for personal use of the person for whom imported and not for resale. ATF Form 6 - Part I (5330.3A) is used to obtain approval for such importation

If your local FFL is using that to transfer the firearm to you, they are committing a crime.

The key part in the quote from BATFE is "for himself OR AN UNLICENSED PERSON IN THE LICENSEE'S STATE". Using a Form 6 for an import for a customer is the intended usage; it's not intended to advance the personal collection of the 01-FFL him/herself. The form 6 itself has a field for the name of the "final recipient", suggesting that it's intended to be used by on 01-FFL to facilitate a purchase by a third party.

That wouldn't be a "resale" since the 01-FFL never takes title to the gun. If the 01-FFL used it to buy a gun from overseas with the intent of reselling it, that would be a different matter.