TargetTalk

What has happened to the NRA Smallbore National Championships … ATTENDENCE, ATTENDENCE, ATTENDENCE !
Average attendance for NRA Prone National Championships from 2003 thru 2013 was 265 competitors. Year 2013 saw 316 competitors with 47 four(4) man prone teams. Year 2016 witnessed 130 competitors and only 11 four(4)man prone teams. The move from Camp Perry has “crushed the National Smallbore 3pos and prone championships events.

Someone on the NRA Smallbore committee ought to recognize and admit to all parties that the need for Camp Perry to designate the 2 years (2014 & 2015) to International Palma matches was a huge mistake. Now the NRA is locked into a 5 year contract for Bristol, IA.

Predicting one(1) relay next year
Average attendance for NRA Prone National Championships from 2003 thru 2013 was 265 competitors. Year 2013 saw 316 competitors with 47 four(4) mans teams. Year 2016 witnessed 130 competitors and only 11 four(4)man teams. The move from Camp Perry has “crushed the National Smallbore 3pos and prone championships events.

Someone on the NRA Smallbore committee ought to recognize and admit to all parties that the need for the NRA & Camp Perry to designate the 2 years (2014 & 2015) to International Palma matches was a huge mistake. Now the NRA is locked into a 5 year contract for Bristol, IA.

Predicting one(1) relay next year

After finally shooting at Bristol, for both 3p conventional days and the Whistler Boy match I can honestly say that I agree. Moving to Bristol was a mistake. only 107 competitors for the conventional 3p match. Sad.

The "Cheif Wa-Ke-De" range is very nice, but the wind across the range is inconsistent, and at dusk during the Whistler Boy the 100 yard targets were very tricky to see against the nearby wooden berm backstop. The pine tree parking lot (as nice as a campground) was welcomed though, very soft to walk on and an improvement compared to the Perry parking lot.

Fred,
The NRA and Bristol have a contract but it contains an opt out option for both parties. If used it must be done by Jan. 1st of each year. This is from the club rep.
Ed

Ed, thank you, there is always hope that the tradition of the NRA Smallbore Championships can be restored to Camp Perry.

p.s. I posted the same message on USA Shooting (NRA publication) ... it's posting is "pending approval". I'm not so optimistic about it being posted.

Have a Blessed Evening

Fred Scharpenberg

Bunch of crybabies! Go shoot!! If it was easy everybody would do it

Fred:

This is just my very humble opinion.

I have no problem with an open post on a forum (once again, for the thousandth time) bemoaning the move to Bristol. It had been a few weeks, so I guess we were due.

What I did have a problem with, was the identical post on the SSUSA article congratulating the winners. The best in the nation were there, regardless of the actual numbers, and Mark's (and the other winners) achievements certainly didn't need the attendance commentary. A simple "great shooting!" comment would have sufficed.

Flame suit on.

kev

fred.scharpenberg wrote:What has happened to the NRA Smallbore National Championships … ATTENDENCE, ATTENDENCE, ATTENDENCE !
Average attendance for NRA Prone National Championships from 2003 thru 2013 was 265 competitors. Year 2013 saw 316 competitors with 47 four(4) man prone teams. Year 2016 witnessed 130 competitors and only 11 four(4)man prone teams. The move from Camp Perry has “crushed the National Smallbore 3pos and prone championships events.

Someone on the NRA Smallbore committee ought to recognize and admit to all parties that the need for Camp Perry to designate the 2 years (2014 & 2015) to International Palma matches was a huge mistake. Now the NRA is locked into a 5 year contract for Bristol, IA.

Predicting one(1) relay next year
Average attendance for NRA Prone National Championships from 2003 thru 2013 was 265 competitors. Year 2013 saw 316 competitors with 47 four(4) mans teams. Year 2016 witnessed 130 competitors and only 11 four(4)man teams. The move from Camp Perry has “crushed the National Smallbore 3pos and prone championships events.

Someone on the NRA Smallbore committee ought to recognize and admit to all parties that the need for the NRA & Camp Perry to designate the 2 years (2014 & 2015) to International Palma matches was a huge mistake. Now the NRA is locked into a 5 year contract for Bristol, IA.

Predicting one(1) relay next year

In contrast, the USAS nationals had 151 for prone and 177 for 3P. The NRA championship usually dwarfs that number.

Also I saw way too many instances of this in the NRA results for category awards:

Insufficiant entries to give award. 10 Entries are required. (sic)

The NRA move to Bristol, combined with refusing to accept unclassified open shooters means too few juniors are competing and fewer of other categories that normally were awarded (including collegiate, senior, etc...). Not to mention that the high Woman award was dropped.

I stopped by Camp Perry on the way home from Bristol and based on my observations - and the fact that they are currently offering the smallbore frames for sale- I sincerely doubt that smallbore will be back at Camp Perry any time soon - if at all.

Observations about attendance are certainly not being a "crybaby". It is a valid observation and many seasoned competitors, coaches and promoters of the smallbore disciplines have noticed and are working to improve those numbers.

While my views on the move from Camp Perry are well known, I heartily congratulate all of the winners at Bristol. They shot the scores and climbed the podium. There is no denying that fact.

Kind Regards,
ken

The decline in entries and crying about the move are two seperate things! Lets not mix the two. Its not going back to perry and even if it did the numbers wouldnt improve. Its past time to complain about moving it back. We need to work on promoting the match and the sport. We must embrace bristol like we did perry. Complaining only makes people less likely to come. There is nothing wrong with the range. The winds tricky as it should be.
Honestly i think the problm is that todays shooters like shooting on electronics. They tolerate paper back home at local ranges but expect electronic scoring at big matches. We shoot multiple national level matches a year in both air an 22. NRA match in bristol is only one on paper. College matches are all electronic. Few college shooters at bristol, no electronic. Few shooters that qualified for olympic trials at Bristol, no electronic. Finding out how you did the morning after you shoot? Thats pretty old school for the generstion that lives on the phone an internet, with instant results. Paper targets arent the only reason but the more i talk to people its a big one,

I didn't go for a few reasons. Yes the dwindling attendance and not being at Perry played a small part. But the main reason was cost!! $335 to shoot the four days of position. Add on top of that ~$400 for ammo and ~$150 for gas and your looking at nearly $900 for one match!! I live about an hour from Bristol so thankfully there isn't a hotel stay in there also. I can't justify spending that kind of money for what is turning into a smaller and smaller match. Open up the match to unclassified shooters and lower registration fees and you'll put people on firing points. They may not be happy people but they'll be there none the less.

I'm not interested in a flame war here, but just what earthly difference does it make to an individual as to how many folks are going to the match?? If you want to compete for a national championship, what difference does it make if there are 10 people there or 1000?? As was pointed out earlier, the hard holders showed up and walked away with the hardware. If you want to test yourself at that level, it shouldn't matter how many other folks are there to compete with you.

I guess I'm just not understanding the issue.

I'll put on my asbestos undies and see what develops.

redschietti wrote:The decline in entries and crying about the move are two seperate things! Lets not mix the two. Its not going back to perry and even if it did the numbers wouldnt improve. Its past time to complain about moving it back. We need to work on promoting the match and the sport. We must embrace bristol like we did perry. Complaining only makes people less likely to come. There is nothing wrong with the range. The winds tricky as it should be.
Honestly i think the problm is that todays shooters like shooting on electronics. They tolerate paper back home at local ranges but expect electronic scoring at big matches. We shoot multiple national level matches a year in both air an 22. NRA match in bristol is only one on paper. College matches are all electronic. Few college shooters at bristol, no electronic. Few shooters that qualified for olympic trials at Bristol, no electronic. Finding out how you did the morning after you shoot? Thats pretty old school for the generstion that lives on the phone an internet, with instant results. Paper targets arent the only reason but the more i talk to people its a big one,

You are the one calling people crybabies. Read your prior post.

As for electronic targets not being used being a factor, I respectfully disagree. You are mixing international type matches and conventional. Obviously, you shoot mostly international - and that is fine. College matches are all at 50' and yes, electronic is expected along with 10m. Most shooters that qualified for Olympic trials are international shooters and rarely competed at either Camp Perry or Bristol. The vast majority that did were members of the AMU. There are exceptions, such as Jamie, but they are far and few.

College shooters rarely shoot Camp Perry or Bristol. They are international discipline type shooters. Again, some do, but the percentage is and has always been minimal compared to the overall sampling. Very few college shooters also shoot after they leave college, so they are not expected to be at any match after 4 years at a Div. I college.

Slow scoring at Bristol is not any different that what was at Camp Perry. A well run match, such as the Mid-Atlantic 6400, not only has the final day's targets scored about 1 hour after shooting is complete, but also the scores are posted and the final results printed out and distributed prior to the awards ceremony.

Shooters do not go to bristol for multiple reasons. The first and foremost reason is that they are disillusioned with the NRA and the entire situation involving the move. Tacking on another several hours of driving vs Camp Perry also makes it less appealing to many that live in the New England states.

We can agree to disagree - and that is fine. Many have moved on and decided that Bristol is not their cup of tea. I only went this year because it was a Roberts Team selection year. Will I go back next year? No. Because it is not at Camp Perry. No. Because it is not on electronic targets. Uh...definitely not.

Again, your perspective may be different. Have a good evening.
ken

Marc Orvin wrote:If you want to compete for a national championship, what difference does it make if there are 10 people there or 1000?? As was pointed out earlier, the hard holders showed up and walked away with the hardware. If you want to test yourself at that level, it shouldn't matter how many other folks are there to compete with you.

I guess I'm just not understanding the issue.

In reality only a dozen or so folks have any chance of winning. The others are there for the experience. Many go for the reunion of friends. Shooting at Perry was a key ingredient in that experience. When the match became too expensive, too bureaucratic, broke with tradition, didn't post timely results, and the NRA behaved dishonestly; folks stopped going. For me it was an idiot working the line. When a line officer on a power trip tells me to move my rifle while folks are down range or is picking on someone of a non-European background; count me out.

Mark