TargetTalk

Just received my new EVO 10 and I'm unable to fill it.

What happens is that the pressure release hole in the SCUBA (DIN valve) blows out air instead of letting air pass into the EVO cylinder.

The tank (two tanks actually) work just fine to fill my CZ 200T cylinders... I just screw the adapter into the tank valve and connect the gun cylinder and open the valve and the cylinder fills just fine.

The Steyr also came with a DIN valve adapter, and I screw that into the tank valve. And then screw on the Steyr cylinder and try to fill it. No air enters the cylinder, but air exits the scuba tank via the small relief hole. It's as if screwing in the Steyr cylinder doesn't open whatever valve is in it, so with a buildup of pressure, the scuba tank relief valve opens.

The booklet of instructions that came with the EVO 10 does not even mention ANYTHING about filling the cylinders!!!

Thanks for any help!

Just guessing, but is there a number on the valve on your Scuba tank?

I'm guessing that it will be 300, indicating 300 bar.

What you're really looking for is 232 (bar).

The 300 bar valve has a longer thread so the 200 bar adaptor that came with the gun might not seal properly.

I'm sure that something similar to this adaptor will be available in the USA. The one shown also enables you to use the tank's bleed valve before removing the cylinder.

David Levene wrote:Just guessing, but is there a number on the valve on your Scuba tank?

I'm guessing that it will be 300, indicating 300 bar.

What you're really looking for is 232 (bar).

The 300 bar valve has a longer thread so the 200 bar adaptor that came with the gun might not seal properly.

I'm sure that something similar to this adaptor will be available in the USA. The one shown also enables you to use the tank's bleed valve before removing the cylinder.

David, my tank is only 3400 psi... (232 BAR). NOT 300 BAR.

My gun was THREE WEEKS for testing by the Canadian authorities before it was released. That was to determine whether or not the gun was within our legal velocity (it is). I wonder if it's possible that they put back the WRONG DIN adapter into my package. I'm sure that since they test guns all the time, that they have many adapters laying around. This is what mine looks like:



My EVO 10 is the Compact version. Could it be something about the way the adapter fits into the Steyr cylinder which then doesn't allow the valve to open? Could that piece be the wrong one?

The Steyr cylinders have this engraved on them... "PW 200 BAR PH 300 BAR 0,16 KG".

The gauge at the end is in the red zone at 200 BAR.

I'm afraid I don't understand this. The engraving seems to imply to me that 200 or 300 BAR can be used. Yet the red zone starting at 200 would indicate that is the max.

And again, I don't know what that adapter is, and whether or not it is the correct one. Being out for testing for three weeks by the government (not sure which agency) certainly allows the possibility that the wrong adapter was grabbed and put back into my package I guess.

It must be the correct adaptor if the Steyr cylinder screws on OK
Have you tightened the adaptor on to the scuba tank enough,try a gentle turn with an adjustable wrench (don't overtighten) ?

As David L wrote, if you use a 300 bar scuba tank you will need a longer adaptor thread, but yours is a 232 bar tank.

Mtl_Biker wrote:The engraving seems to imply to me that 200 or 300 BAR can be used.

NO

The working pressure is 200 bar. The test pressure is 300 bar.

Only use 200 bar.

It sounds like the adapter is not sealing to the tank.
Some tanks have a recessed sealing face, in the past I have had
to slightly turn down an adapter to fit the recess. (Walther).
Check the o ring is seating to the face.
Check the seating depth. A 200 bar adapter is shorter
than a 300 bar head.
Compare the adapter length to the other pistol that works.

The o-ring on the Steyr adapter is in a very deep groove. Consequently, not much of the o-ring is available to compress and seal the imperfections on the face of the bottom of the DIN valve on the scuba tank. We have found this on several occasions. Go to Ace Hardware and get some bibb seals of the correct size and use one behind the adapter. This will help seal things up to where you will get no blow-by around the adapter.

USA Shooting wrote:The o-ring on the Steyr adapter is in a very deep groove. Consequently, not much of the o-ring is available to compress and seal the imperfections on the face of the bottom of the DIN valve on the scuba tank. We have found this on several occasions. Go to Ace Hardware and get some bibb seals of the correct size and use one behind the adapter. This will help seal things up to where you will get no blow-by around the adapter.

I obviously wasn't explaining this correctly....

I'm not getting blow-by around the adapter.

There is NO LEAK behind the adapter (between the scuba tank's DIN valve and the adapter). It fits just fine. The problem, as far as I can see, is that the adapter doesn't cause the valve in the Steyr cylinder to open when it's attached, causing such a build-up of pressure that the scuba tank's pressure relief hole just blows the air out.

It IS very possible that it's the wrong adapter. My gun was sent to a government agency (RCMP??) for testing when it arrived in Canada, to determine if it was within our power limits. It was there for three weeks. So it is possible that during/after those three weeks, someone simply popped the wrong adapter back in my case.

But what's a "bibb seal" anyway? (We don't have Ace Hardware here in Canada.) But as I said, I'm pretty sure this isn't the problem.

I measured the length of the thread on the adapter (the part that the Steyr cylinder screws onto) and it's 15mm. The depth of the hole on the Steyr cylinder is 15.95mm. Could this 1mm difference be enough to prevent the valve in the cylinder from being opened?

How can I determine whether or not this is the correct adapter? Does anyone have one? Can you compare it with the photo of mine that I posted?

David M wrote:It sounds like the adapter is not sealing to the tank.
Some tanks have a recessed sealing face, in the past I have had
to slightly turn down an adapter to fit the recess. (Walther).
Check the o ring is seating to the face.
Check the seating depth. A 200 bar adapter is shorter
than a 300 bar head.
Compare the adapter length to the other pistol that works.

The adapter is sealing to the scuba tank just fine. No leaks.

As I just said in another reply, the problem as far as I can tell, is at the other end of the adapter... the end that the Steyr cylinder would screw onto.

David Levene wrote:

Mtl_Biker wrote:The engraving seems to imply to me that 200 or 300 BAR can be used.

NO

The working pressure is 200 bar. The test pressure is 300 bar.

Only use 200 bar.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

I don't have the ability to do 300 bar anyway.

Silvershooter wrote:It must be the correct adaptor if the Steyr cylinder screws on OK
Have you tightened the adaptor on to the scuba tank enough,try a gentle turn with an adjustable wrench (don't overtighten) ?

As David L wrote, if you use a 300 bar scuba tank you will need a longer adaptor thread, but yours is a 232 bar tank.

How can we be sure of that? You're saying just because it screws on it's correct? Surely there's more to it than that! How about length of that end (I repeat, the problem is NOT at the end that screws into the scuba tank's DIN fitting) or the shape of the end of it?

Can someone please, who has the correct adapter, compare theirs with the photo of mine that I posted? As I said, it's possible that the wrong one was replaced in my package after three weeks of testing by a government agency.

yes, this is the correct adapter, I have two of them.
http://www.10punkt9.de/shop/product_inf ... cts_id=147


I'd recommend a different place to fill them up, this way you can be sure it's not the adapter or the cylinder. If that doesn't work, find somebody with any Steyr pistol and use their fill adapter.

There's another possibility of that you need to screw the adapter in tighter into the tank, I have heard it a couple of times. You will need a wrench.

I have had other people's adaptor do that to my cylinders (may be it's a really old Steyr adaptor), but never had problem with my adaptor with my or other people's Steyr cylinders (long and compact).

Easiest is to find someone with a hand pump in your area or your club to double check.

- M

I have had this problem before and the fix is simple.
The adaptor has no idea whether it is experiencing 200 or 300 bar however 200 bar pistols have a shorter adaptor with less threads than the 300 bar adaptor which is approximately 3-4 mm longer.
This is done in order to prevent owners of 200 bar cylinders/guns inadvertently being able to charge them with 300 bar from a 300 bar certified and charged scuba cylinder.

The easiest fix is to buy the longer 300 bar adaptor suggested by mt_biker or alternatively scuba shops sell intermediate o ring spacers than can be turned down to the appropriate thickness. I have machined approx 10 of these over the years fo my and other shooters needs.

Measure the length of your steyr adaptor and then measure the internal depth of the tap on your scuba tank and you will find it comes up short which in turn allows the air to escape through the vent hole rather than moving into the cylinder.

Buy the the optional 300 ( longer ) adaptor you need failing your being able to make a spacer.

I have also turned up a nylon spacer which also worked very well, and simple to make.

Simply put the 300 bar adaptor will work on a 200 bar tap/valve, however the 200 bar adaptor is too short to work on the 300 bar tap/valve.

Mtl_Biker wrote:

USA Shooting wrote:
There is NO LEAK behind the adapter (between the scuba tank's DIN valve and the adapter). It fits just fine. The problem, as far as I can see, is that the adapter doesn't cause the valve in the Steyr cylinder to open when it's attached, causing such a build-up of pressure that the scuba tank's pressure relief hole just blows the air out.

I doubt if it is the Tanks pressure relief valve, depending on the tanks valve part number the relief is a blowout disc
between 3692 to 4550 psi and once blown will not seal until replaced.
Usually only happens if your tank is in a fire or mishandled during filling.
The leak you are getting is out of the small vent hole on the adapter housing.
If air is leaking from here after you open the tank valve then the adapter is not sealing to the housing.
The adapter does not have to open the pistol tank valve, differential pressure will do that.
Some model adapters can be used to open a tank valve as a way of bleeding off or emptying a tank.

deadeyedick wrote:I have had this problem before and the fix is simple.
The adaptor has no idea whether it is experiencing 200 or 300 bar however 200 bar pistols have a shorter adaptor with less threads than the 300 bar adaptor which is approximately 3-4 mm longer.
This is done in order to prevent owners of 200 bar cylinders/guns inadvertently being able to charge them with 300 bar from a 300 bar certified and charged scuba cylinder.

The easiest fix is to buy the longer 300 bar adaptor suggested by mt_biker or alternatively scuba shops sell intermediate o ring spacers than can be turned down to the appropriate thickness. I have machined approx 10 of these over the years fo my and other shooters needs.

Measure the length of your steyr adaptor and then measure the internal depth of the tap on your scuba tank and you will find it comes up short which in turn allows the air to escape through the vent hole rather than moving into the cylinder.

Buy the the optional 300 ( longer ) adaptor you need failing your being able to make a spacer.

I have also turned up a nylon spacer which also worked very well, and simple to make.

Simply put the 300 bar adaptor will work on a 200 bar tap/valve, however the 200 bar adaptor is too short to work on the 300 bar tap/valve.

Okay, I'm slowly starting to understand what you kind folks are telling me.

I thought that was a pressure relief valve opening up on the scuba tank, but it's really just a vent hole? Now I get it.

But isn't it unusual/strange that with a 3400 psi (232 BAR) tank, the supplied adapter doesn't work and that I need a longer (300 BAR) adapter? I mean, my tanks are NOT 300 BAR tanks!

Looks like I'm dead in the water with this until I can get the proper adapter, and that's going to take at LEAST a week. SIGH

Can you give me a clue about what those "intermediate o-ring spacers" look like? Or that nylon spacer you're talking about? My only chance is that once I know what to look for, I might find something in a local hardware store that would work. Is the idea to fill in the space between the scuba DIN valve and the adapter? What you use doesn't need to be threaded? But it would have to make a good seal in that space, right? So that air doesn't escape around it to the vent hole?

Thank you all for your kind help!!

David M wrote:

Mtl_Biker wrote:

USA Shooting wrote:
There is NO LEAK behind the adapter (between the scuba tank's DIN valve and the adapter). It fits just fine. The problem, as far as I can see, is that the adapter doesn't cause the valve in the Steyr cylinder to open when it's attached, causing such a build-up of pressure that the scuba tank's pressure relief hole just blows the air out.

I doubt if it is the Tanks pressure relief valve, depending on the tanks valve part number the relief is a blowout disc
between 3692 to 4550 psi and once blown will not seal until replaced.
Usually only happens if your tank is in a fire or mishandled during filling.
The leak you are getting is out of the small vent hole on the adapter housing.
If air is leaking from here after you open the tank valve then the adapter is not sealing to the housing.
The adapter does not have to open the pistol tank valve, differential pressure will do that.
Some model adapters can be used to open a tank valve as a way of bleeding off or emptying a tank.

Thanks David! NOW I understand. (Sorry, slow learner here.)

I didn't realize that was a vent hole and not pressure relief valve.

But my tank is only 3440 psi and not a higher pressure tank which would require a 300 BAR adapter. Isn't it strange that my 232 BAR adapter appears to not be long enough to cover the vent hole?

This is really frustrating!! I've been waiting a long time for the pistol to arrive (after being tested by the authorities for three weeks) and I even cut a vacation shorter (mainly due to bad weather) just in order to be back and play with the pistol. And now I've got it in my hands and am not able to do anything other than dry fire it.

Have you actually tried to see if you can tighten the adaptor further with a wrench ?
I posted exactly the same problem on TT a couple of years ago . I previously had a Morini where tightening the adaptor with my fingers was enough , bu my Steyr adaptor required some force applied with a wrench.

Silvershooter wrote:Have you actually tried to see if you can tighten the adaptor further with a wrench ?
I posted exactly the same problem on TT a couple of years ago . I previously had a Morini where tightening the adaptor with my fingers was enough , bu my Steyr adaptor required some force applied with a wrench.

Yes, I've used a wrench. With no success.