TargetTalk

Fail to function in Pardini SP new 22 with SK Special, and Wolf MT. The round fires, the hammer does not cock, the brass does not eject, the next bullet gets a small mark on the lead. Looking in I see the brass about 1/4 in out of chamber and the next round is touching it. The brass will not extract the rest of the way and must be pried out with a tool.

Starting with a cleaned gun today:
Changed buffer, changed recoil spring, tried 3 different mags and no difference. Then I took the old spring and cut 2 more coils off it, and still no difference. Sk wont eject even if there is no next round in the mag. Same with Wolf. Eley seems to work 90% of the time, CCI works 99% of the time.

I noticed the brass on my gun comes out with streaks on it (like drag marks)? I got these lengthwise streaks on the brass as if it were dragging coming out of the chamber. That would possibly mean the extractor lets go of the brass while the bolt goes halfway back, just enough to let the next round rise and jam the brass which is 1/4 inch out of the chamber and that's what might put a small mark on the next bullet. That might explain why the brass has to be pried out of the chamber because hitting the next round might tweak it enough to deform it and make it tight. The extractor is new and will hold a live round without dropping it but maybe it can't overcome the drag, looses the brass, and the bolt loosing the brass isn't driven far enough to cock the hammer. Well that's a theory in progress.

But of course, I never examined the brass closely before. So maybe those marks are always there.

The strange thing is this gun always used to shoot SK and Wolf reliably unless it was really cold, Then it took 10 rounds or so to warm up the gun after which it was OK.

The gun has about 45K rounds. Do the chambers on these go out of round possibly or in some way tighten up?

Anyone experience this and find a solution?

So sorry to hear about your problems; of course those failures to feed or eject should not happen. I was really surprised to see feeding/ejection issues with SK or Wolf ammunition as my SP Bullseye loves their bullets, but 22s are notoriously idiosyncratic.

My first suspect is a tight chamber. The recoil force from a normal round should eject brass and cock the hammer. chamber mics at 0.2295". With the barrel removed from pistol and oriented muzzle down, all 22 brands I had on hand (SK magazine, SK+, Eley yellow box, CCI SV, & RWS target) easily fell down a clean chamber to the case rim. The SKs ammo slowly slid down but reached the rim with no external aid. I estimate to have shot ~4000 rounds through pistol since buying it in April 2014. I suspect the wear from this amount of shooting is negligible.

The drag marks suggests a possible burr on extractor, which I've never heard off or seen, but also could be a tight chamber. I strongly recommend contacting Pardini and soliciting their help. They have an excellent reputation for product support and will want to help you solve your pistol's problems. Good luck, dipnet

On a .22 blowback, the extractor does not "extract" the case, the case should push the bolt back rather than the bolt pull the case out.

If you have visible marks on the case then I suspect chamber damage (most likely at the mouth). Get a fired case and using the firing pin indent to orientate, check the chamber in places that correspond to case damage. Probably a burr somewhere that needs removing.

Also, go back to standard length recoil spring, you shouldn't need to cut anything off that.

Sounds like a chamber issue, mechanical damage, the extractor slot bent in, dirt or corrosion or erosion has damaged it.
Lack of cleaning can mean the bolt isn't slamming against a perfectly flat face which creates pressure points.

A while back there was an issue with a batch of barrels being the wrong hardness.
If so its possible the breach face can mushroom over.

I guess find someone with a chamber reamer.

Dipnet wrote:So sorry to hear about your problems; of course those failures to feed or eject should not happen. I was really surprised to see feeding/ejection issues with SK or Wolf ammunition as my SP Bullseye loves their bullets, but 22s are notoriously idiosyncratic.

My first suspect is a tight chamber. The recoil force from a normal round should eject brass and cock the hammer. chamber mics at 0.2295". With the barrel removed from pistol and oriented muzzle down, all 22 brands I had on hand (SK magazine, SK+, Eley yellow box, CCI SV, & RWS target) easily fell down a clean chamber to the case rim. The SKs ammo slowly slid down but reached the rim with no external aid. I estimate to have shot ~4000 rounds through pistol since buying it in April 2014. I suspect the wear from this amount of shooting is negligible.

The drag marks suggests a possible burr on extractor, which I've never heard off or seen, but also could be a tight chamber. I strongly recommend contacting Pardini and soliciting their help. They have an excellent reputation for product support and will want to help you solve your pistol's problems. Good luck, dipnet

Thanks, that's what I have been looking for, a chamber dimension. Is the chamber dimensions constant? ie .2295" all the way to the rifling?

The drag marks are all around the circumference of the brass, so I am not suspecting an extractor problem. Extractor is new, but not the spring because they were out of stock at the time so, I just stretched the spring. The extractor works so well it tries to eject the dry fire plug.

When I clean the gun, all rounds drop freely into the chamber with the satisfying clunk I am used to.

I am reluctant to send the gun to Pardini since if they chose to cure the problem by changing the barrel and the bolt, that adds up to about 1/2 the price of a new gun.

JamesH wrote:Sounds like a chamber issue, mechanical damage, the extractor slot bent in, dirt or corrosion or erosion has damaged it.
Lack of cleaning can mean the bolt isn't slamming against a perfectly flat face which creates pressure points.

A while back there was an issue with a batch of barrels being the wrong hardness.
If so its possible the breach face can mushroom over.

I guess find someone with a chamber reamer.

thanks for your help.
dirty or scrupulously clean seems to make no difference. I used to only clean this gun every 1500 rounds with no issues. Now it wont cycle an SK spezial from the very first round in a clean gun at room temperature.

I tried some SK that recently and found that it would not eject either. I had the problem in both a clean Pardini SP and a Benelli MP90. I had a 1 in 5 failure to eject in a High Standard Victor with the same ammo. I've never shot Wolf and most of my matches and practices are with Norma Tac or Norma Match.

I did discover that Federal 711B chambers and feeds reliably in all three pistols.

jmdavis wrote:I tried some SK that recently and found that it would not eject either. I had the problem in both a clean Pardini SP and a Benelli MP90. I had a 1 in 5 failure to eject in a High Standard Victor with the same ammo. I've never shot Wolf and most of my matches and practices are with Norma Tac or Norma Match.

I did discover that Federal 711B chambers and feeds reliably in all three pistols.

How does Norma Tac, Norma Match group compared to SK (Wolf is the same stuff different box, I am told)? I saw some Norma someplace but was afraid to try it.

Isn't Fed 711B a high velocity round?

My Pardini SP does not cycle well with bullets that have a lot of lube on them. I use Aguila Rifle Match or Pistol Match, it functions reliably and is very accurate.

45k is a high round count. It is possible that the bolt has peened the breech face of the barrel into the chamber. Another thing to look at would be I'd you have ever dry fired the pistol the firing pin does hit the barrel, so it can displace metal into the chamber.

All things a 22lr chamber swage will clear up.

I didn't have my thinking cap on last night: the extractor on SPs is on the magazine. The extractor tab (shaped like a fish fin) is located on the top back edge of the magazine; perhaps it is bent or has a nick?

Regarding the chamber diameter, the measurement was taken about mid-chamber (as deep as my calipers would fit).

Since this is a recent problem, does it occur with all of your magazines? If so, that leaves the breach face as a good candidate. Carefully inspect chamber mouth with a magnifying glass.

However, before you spend a lot of time, call Alex Chichkov (PardiniUSA manager) and explain the problem. He might know right away what it is. Good luck, Dipnet

PS: Alex Chichkov's cell is (813) 468-7500.

Dipnet wrote:I didn't have my thinking cap on last night: the extractor on SPs is on the magazine. The extractor tab (shaped like a fish fin) is located on the top back edge of the magazine...

That's the ejector. The extractor is on the R/H side of the bolt.

xeye wrote:I used to only clean this gun every 1500 rounds with no issues.

Then I'd say the chamber has worn unevenly due to lack of cleaning, become damaged or scratched or the face peened over.

ghillieman wrote:My Pardini SP does not cycle well with bullets that have a lot of lube on them. I use Aguila Rifle Match or Pistol Match, it functions reliably and is very accurate.

45k is a high round count. It is possible that the bolt has peened the breech face of the barrel into the chamber. Another thing to look at would be I'd you have ever dry fired the pistol the firing pin does hit the barrel, so it can displace metal into the chamber.

All things a 22lr chamber swage will clear up.

The lube is an unlikely problem because it cycles CCI std vel the best of all.

In the pistols entire live it probably has been dry fired without the plug 5 or 6 times by accident.

Ordered a swage last weekend and it is winging its way here even as we speak.

JamesH wrote:

xeye wrote:I used to only clean this gun every 1500 rounds with no issues.

Then I'd say the chamber has worn unevenly due to lack of cleaning, become damaged or scratched or the face peened over.

this is the conclusion I am working towards. Pardini has previously told me that 1500 rounds between cleaning should be no problem.

Dipnet wrote:I didn't have my thinking cap on last night: the extractor on SPs is on the magazine. The extractor tab (shaped like a fish fin) is located on the top back edge of the magazine; perhaps it is bent or has a nick?

Regarding the chamber diameter, the measurement was taken about mid-chamber (as deep as my calipers would fit).

Since this is a recent problem, does it occur with all of your magazines? If so, that leaves the breach face as a good candidate. Carefully inspect chamber mouth with a magnifying glass.

However, before you spend a lot of time, call Alex Chichkov (PardiniUSA manager) and explain the problem. He might know right away what it is. Good luck, Dipnet

PS: Alex Chichkov's cell is (813) 468-7500.

Just tested all mags, Monday. All the same.

Have carefully inspected the ejector lips, none bent, no burrs. Some have lost a tiny bit of paint on one edge about 1/32 inch wide but it doesn't seem to be a drag issue. Although it is very difficult to see the tab as the bolt covers it.

Certainly can't feel a drag working the action by hand.

Have talked to Alex. His suggestion is to send the gun in, broken down in 2 boxes. He said I might need a bolt or barrel. I want to investigate as much as possible before I go through the hassle and expense of that.

By the way, I gave 10 rounds of SK Spezial from the same box to another team member to try in his Pardini and they all worked flawlessly.

The Norma has RWS headstamp. It shoots well for me at gallery and full distance. But the best I do with the 22 is a 92 average.

711B is marked 1080 FPS. I haven't tested it with a chrono. But I believe that my cci std is marked 1070. If cci std worked I would shoot it, it performs well in my pistol but the inconsistent lengths cause feed problems.


Mike

Ejector, extractor, potato, tomato. Dipnet

this is the best I can do with just a dial vernier:


brand.......Dia brass(in).............OA length(in)

sk_________ .2235______________ .980
cci_________ .2235___________ __.9965
Eley Tgt____.2235_______________ .984

Measuring the chamber :

Looking at the chamber with the extractor groove on the right, and using clock orientation to explain where the edges of the inside caliper are

Horizontal (in.) Or 9 and 3,____ .221

Vertical(in) Or 6 o'clock____ .2245

In) at 10 and 4 o'clock __ .223

(in) at 5 and 7 o'clock____.221

So what do y'all think.
I can't *see* any deformation at the extractor groove.

I do see what might be a slight bevel at the throat of the chamber at 2x and 4 x magnification, I assume this is a factory machining?

Try taking a .25 caliber bronze brush and bending a 90 degree at the end of the threads. Use this in a circular motion to clean out the throat of the barrel where the bullet and casing sit. This should get rid of any lead build up at the throat. You can also attach it to a drill and clean out the throat.

The problem with the CCI for me is length in the magazine and having them feed consistently. Here are some numbers that I got the other night for length.

CCI Std paper box
.980
.980
.986
.985
.986

Eley Club
.974
.9745
.974
.975
.976

Federal 711 this is white box and not 711b
.980
.981
.982
.978
.979

SK Std Plus
.978
.980
.980
.978
.980

Norma TAC Match (RWS)
.964
.965
.967
.965
.966

And the surprise of the night, 1995 Remington White Box from CMP
.979
.981
.978
.979
.977

I found that the ammo over .985 didn't fit in my mags or would tend to stick. The mags were freshly cleaned by the way.