TargetTalk

At the moment, I am shooting a stock Beretta 92A1 for CMP Hardball and not able to handload. I've been hearing good things about Fiocchi ammo (115 grain JHP in particular) in APEX barreled 9's out there but I'd be well served to know the forums opinion on factory 9mm in general.

I've got my eye on a couple cases of Winchester 'train' 147 grain subsonic FMJ (http://www.winchester.com/Products/hand ... W9MMT.aspx) mostly because it's low recoil and the price is very good. But is it accurate?

I am meant to understand that the twist rate in the Beretta's is quite fast (1:10") and that it should follow that a long bullet going slow would be the ticket in the long term.

Any insight?

For factory ammo, I have had the best luck (accuracy at 50 yards) with the Atlanta Arms match loads:

http://www.atlantaarms.com/product-cate ... 9mm-match/

I have just started to experiment with 147 grain loads at 25 yards, but don't have anything to share on that, yet.

The Atlanta Arms AMU 115gr ammo is about as good as it gets.
My reloads are just as good.
Had great success with Winchester white box 115gr at the short line.
Have received 4 legs using the Atlanta Arms for the long line and Winchester white box for the short line.
1 leg using my reloads.
Sitting on 30 points, I just need a hard leg to leg out.

I shoot a 92FS with a 1/32 slow twist KKM barrel.

Clarence

Sounds like I should be in good shape with what I've got as long as I don't go much past 25. I will see about a reasonably priced supply of the Atlanta Arms stuff but I may well just go ahead and reserve my real accuracy testing for whenever I start loading.

I've got the Winchester white box 115s in some quantity, 124 grain Federal Subsonic and 147 Grain Winchester "Train" subsonic coming, and my feelers out for anything from ASYM or Atlanta that won't cost me a can of coke every time I pull the trigger.

CowsEarShooter wrote:Sounds like I should be in good shape with what I've got as long as I don't go much past 25. I will see about a reasonably priced supply of the Atlanta Arms stuff but I may well just go ahead and reserve my real accuracy testing for whenever I start loading.

I've got the Winchester white box 115s in some quantity, 124 grain Federal Subsonic and 147 Grain Winchester "Train" subsonic coming, and my feelers out for anything from ASYM or Atlanta that won't cost me a can of coke every time I pull the trigger.

If you are shooting the Beretta only at 25 yards, you don't need to worry about ammo. The AA&A is great for the fifty yard line but a waste of money at the 25.

Use Winchester white box, which is also quite adequate in my accurized Beretta at the fifty.

However, if your goal is LEG points, then you need to be concerned about both ammo, and your barrel, because as Clarence points out, most of the accurized Beretta's have the KKM 1/32 twist barrel.

Isabel1130 wrote:

CowsEarShooter wrote:Sounds like I should be in good shape with what I've got as long as I don't go much past 25. I will see about a reasonably priced supply of the Atlanta Arms stuff but I may well just go ahead and reserve my real accuracy testing for whenever I start loading.

I've got the Winchester white box 115s in some quantity, 124 grain Federal Subsonic and 147 Grain Winchester "Train" subsonic coming, and my feelers out for anything from ASYM or Atlanta that won't cost me a can of coke every time I pull the trigger.

If you are shooting the Beretta only at 25 yards, you don't need to worry about ammo. The AA&A is great for the fifty yard line but a waste of money at the 25.

Use Winchester white box, which is also quite adequate in my accurized Beretta at the fifty.

However, if your goal is LEG points, then you need to be concerned about both ammo, and your barrel, because as Clarence points out, most of the accurized Beretta's have the KKM 1/32 twist barrel.

Fair enough. I will make do with the Bar-sto 1:16 since the money is spent. I'm going with 1:24 or 1:32 Scheumans in my 1911s for BE but I don't much care to wait for a KKM when I can get the Barsto now.

So...long and slooooow for the 1:16 right?

CowsEarShooter wrote:

Isabel1130 wrote:

CowsEarShooter wrote:Sounds like I should be in good shape with what I've got as long as I don't go much past 25. I will see about a reasonably priced supply of the Atlanta Arms stuff but I may well just go ahead and reserve my real accuracy testing for whenever I start loading.

I've got the Winchester white box 115s in some quantity, 124 grain Federal Subsonic and 147 Grain Winchester "Train" subsonic coming, and my feelers out for anything from ASYM or Atlanta that won't cost me a can of coke every time I pull the trigger.

If you are shooting the Beretta only at 25 yards, you don't need to worry about ammo. The AA&A is great for the fifty yard line but a waste of money at the 25.

Use Winchester white box, which is also quite adequate in my accurized Beretta at the fifty.

However, if your goal is LEG points, then you need to be concerned about both ammo, and your barrel, because as Clarence points out, most of the accurized Beretta's have the KKM 1/32 twist barrel.

Fair enough. I will make do with the Bar-sto 1:16 since the money is spent. I'm going with 1:24 or 1:32 Scheumans in my 1911s for BE but I don't much care to wait for a KKM when I can get the Barsto now.

So...long and slooooow for the 1:16 right?

Each gun is going to be different. You may have lots of testing ahead of you. My understanding is that a slow twist rate barrel on a 1911 45 is totally unnecessary. There are many many 1911 45's on the line shooting Kart barrels. If you are going to shoot lead, and want your barrel to last a 100k rounds, I would suggest considering shooting lead wadcutters. I think the Kart barrels are 1/16 but if I am wrong, some gunsmith here will probably correct me.

Oh, of course, I'll try some samples and see what works. For now it's going to be Winchester white-box 115 grain FMJ, Fiocchi black-box 115 JHP (zero bullet), Federal Eagle 124 FMJ subsonic, Winchester Train 147 FMJ-FP subsonic, and Fiocchi 158 FMJ subsonic.

The trick is I have to use jacketed bullets in my hardball gun per the rules--what's nice is that it doesn't much matter, so long as it's jacketed. I'd like to have some economy of scale when shooting my BE guns as well and since I'm pretty committed to the idea that I'll shoot 9mm for CF in the near term, it will likely be jacketed all around.

Kart barrels, to the best of my knowledge, are indeed 1:16" and I've used them with great success in both wad and ball 1911s. Scheumann barrels are apparently set up with JHP or FMJ bullets in mind when it comes to their "accuracy enhancement technology" series of barrels. I'd prefer to shoot 155 LSWC in the 45 but to be honest, I'll shoot 185 JHP and take the "punishment" of 30 extra grains if it means better results.

Time will tell and so will I; next week after I test some of this 9mm I ordered!

Federal Eagle Suppressor 124 grain is pretty darn promising--except you need a 10 lb spring for it to work.

Winchester Train 147 is pretty sketchy

Winchester Whitebox 115gr is remarkably accurate.

More to follow.

When I lived in SoCal I regularly shot with a friend that attended the Marine Corps Western division matches, even though he was civilian. He had his own stock 92f that he used, so you know it not modified beyond new factory parts and some slight trigger smoothing. I shot a clean timed fire target using his pistol and Win. white box at range 102 one day and have always wondered why everybody seems to think the 92f doesn't shoot well enough. Sure that pistol would not win a National Match but it's fine to shoot local matches.
I saw a posting from a guy in WA. that shot a stock 92fs in a years worth of EIC matches using Win white box, I believe, but it was factory ammo. His high score was a little over 280 and low was around 268. That will take EIC points in most matches. I would bet with the new ammo rule change that 147's are the way to go due to barrel twist rates in stock or Barsto barrels. Initial testing from offhand@25 yards showed my Barsto barreled 92 likes 147 better.

They are not the easiest pistol to shoot high X count cleans with but it can be done with proper technique.