TargetTalk

I'm just about 1500 shots into my 10m adventure and so far am still doing a good bit of learning. My best score so far is a 517. My number of pulled shots is going down but I still have the erratic pulled shots that plague my scores. With the FAS 6004 shooting just under 400 fps I really try to keep a consistent follow through, I try to "watch the pellet hit the paper" which seems to help with the pulled shots a bit. I'm sure some of it is my trigger pull which is mostly me but the FAS 6004 does leave a bit to be desired in a good trigger, my S&W 41 has a much nicer trigger. Any more advice?

zanemoseley wrote:....I try to "watch the pellet hit the paper"...

When you follow through, keep your eye on the front post and maintain the sight picture instead of looking down range at the bull.

zanemoseley wrote:.... some of it is my trigger pull which is mostly me but the FAS 6004 does leave a bit to be desired in a good trigger, my S&W 41 has a much nicer trigger.

The FAS trigger is adjustable.

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... &hilit=FAS

I may give some of the trigger adjustments a shot. They way its currently set up its basically single stage, no felt second stage. I don't know that I'll be able to do much about the lack of crispness but its not mushy by any means, just a bit soft.

Also I just shot a new high for me, a 523.

slofyr wrote:

zanemoseley wrote:....I try to "watch the pellet hit the paper"...

When you follow through, keep your eye on the front post and maintain the sight picture instead of looking down range at the bull.

The moment that you watch the pellet hit the paper will cause pulled shots. Stay concentrated on the sights and on the bull after the shot has gone off will tighten your groups.

Well I messed around with adjusting the trigger, it can be quite a bit better than it was. It does tend to get a weird clunky travel / first stage which is a bit annoying. I lubed up the pivot points and it didn't help too much. The release is better though which is what matters most.

zanemoseley wrote:I'm just about 1500 shots into my 10m adventure and so far am still doing a good bit of learning. My best score so far is a 517. My number of pulled shots is going down but I still have the erratic pulled shots that plague my scores. With the FAS 6004 shooting just under 400 fps I really try to keep a consistent follow through, I try to "watch the pellet hit the paper" which seems to help with the pulled shots a bit. I'm sure some of it is my trigger pull which is mostly me but the FAS 6004 does leave a bit to be desired in a good trigger, my S&W 41 has a much nicer trigger. Any more advice?

Okay guy, stop pull-pulling your shots! Better yet, are you dry firing at all? If so, change your dry fire to live fire ratio

to at least 100:1 . That means 100 dry fire shots to one live fire....I'm serious. Also stop looking at the "paper"; which tells me

you aren't watching your front sight blade. How about looking at the "Paper", only after you've launched at least ten pellets

first. Oh yes; quit paying attention to your scores! If you must log a score, do it during a simulated once a week match.

Since I'm trying to constructively chastise you; just set your trigger pull to a couple ounces over the 500g minimum and then

leave it alone. Just play with what you've got and become it's(trigger) master. My son scored a 540+ with a Gamo Compact

in spite of it's gravelly trigger and 350fps blinding muzzle velocity. You will soon better that....

Tony

Stop adjusting your trigger. As a newbie, learning on a sub-par trigger will help in the long run. Pay attention to the release and follow through, learn the clunks and bumps, and just focus on shooting. When you feel the trigger is holding you back then adjust it.

paw080 wrote:change your dry fire to live fire ratio to at least 100:1 . That means 100 dry fire shots to one live fire....I'm serious.

If you must log a score, do it during a simulated once a week match.

OK, so you think 60 live shots per week is acceptable. Let's see then, according to your maxim, he should correspondingly perform 6000 dry fire shots per week. Putting aside one day for live firing and rest, this means 1000 dry fire shots per day 6 days a week. Assume a relatively hurried rate of one shot every 15 seconds, that amounts to 4 hours and 10 minutes of non-stop dry firing per day. Do you still insist you were serious?

"If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out."

If you go with that philosophy, I think smacking your trigger finger with a hammer at every pulled shot will quickly remedy your problem.

shaky hands wrote:

paw080 wrote:change your dry fire to live fire ratio to at least 100:1 . That means 100 dry fire shots to one live fire....I'm serious.

If you must log a score, do it during a simulated once a week match.

OK, so you think 60 live shots per week is acceptable. Let's see then, according to your maxim, he should correspondingly perform 6000 dry fire shots per week. Putting aside one day for live firing and rest, this means 1000 dry fire shots per day 6 days a week. Assume a relatively hurried rate of one shot every 15 seconds, that amounts to 4 hours and 10 minutes of non-stop dry firing per day. Do you still insist you were serious?

Yes Shakey, I'm serious. If you still don't like it; search for Keith Sanderson's video on hold and dry fire.

If you don't know who Keith Sanderson is; You can search that also. Never mind, Here's a link to prior

Sanderson video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=620LlSK3Oyo

Happy Viewing....

Tony

Being good at standing still while moving his index finger smoothly does not magically make Sanderson good at math, obviously. Remember, shooters only need to count to 10. The difference between 100:1 and 10:1 is probably as obscure to him as the difference between a natural logarithm and a common logarithm.

Note that I do not question whether 100:1 is the right training regimen for Sanderson (knowing Russians, Luzin might well like it), who is pretty much a professional shooter paid to do exactly that. What I question is the soundness of his advice for a regular person who has a job and, likely, a family. A calculation as simple as I did above shows that it is not.

So, do you seriously suggest that Zanemoseley (not Sanderson!) should dryfire for 4 hours and 10 minutes 6 days a week?

shaky hands wrote:Assume a relatively hurried rate of one shot every 15 seconds, that amounts to 4 hours and 10 minutes of non-stop dry firing per day. Do you still insist you were serious?

When Keith Sanderson mentioned the 100:1 ratio he was talking about rapid fire. And yes, for that type of shooting 100:1 is doable. 5 shots in 4 seconds add up pretty quick.
For precision type shooting that ratio is in my view overdoing it. But this varies a lot from shooter to shooter. Some dry fire a lot, while others very little.

zanemoseley

For precision type shooting, I think a ratio of 2:1 is a good start. Two dry fire for every live one.
As you get better, increase that rate (more dry fire).

Adjust your equipment so that it feels kind of right, then stop messing with it. This is very important, because if you keep messing with it you'll never learn to "know it".

Your focus should ALWAYS be on your front sight. It is common for those who are starting to try and find where the pellet hit on the target as soon as you feel it go off. Avoid that at all costs!
Unless you can tell where your front sight was when the gun fired, you'll never be able to call your shots. And without it, you'll have one hell of a time getting better.

And finally, just relax and enjoy your shooting. As you start to pay more attention to your sights, grip and trigger pull, you will learn to control the gun and your scores will increase.

Hope this helps

rmca wrote: For precision type shooting that ratio is in my view overdoing it. But this varies a lot from shooter to shooter. Some dry fire a lot, while others very little.

Very true. Nestruev hates dry firing, and he managed an Olympic gold in free pistol, so his opinion, available right here on Pilkguns, is at least as valuable as Sanderson's. It relates more to juniors, but the overarching idea about the importance of enjoyment of shooting is the same.

Do you recommend dry firing for juniors or not, since you don't dry fire yourself?
I think most of the juniors want to go the discoteque or so and have not so much time. (Because) they doesn't want to spend much time for shooting and this small time when they shoot, it's better they really shoot and have fun and not so much dry firing. I think especially for the juniors, very important is the feeling of the guy after training. Does he have fun? Is it OK or not? Or was it boring? Therefore I mean shooting with ammunition is better than dry firing because after training they feel better.

http://www.pilkguns.com/intmn.shtml

Does this mean he should smack his finger 100 times?

Increase your Vodka intake from 2oz to 3oz.

Whether its 100:1 or 2:1 dry fire to live fire, there is something about this that mystifies me.

While I don't dispute the value of dry fire in general, for air gun in particular, without electronic training aids like Skatt, why would someone dry fire if they can live fire when practicing?

Between work and other activities, I can find time to live fire a 60 shot Air Pistol practice match 4 or 5 times a week. I would have no additional practice time if I was dry firing Air Pistol. The cost of pellets and targets at this level of practice is quite low, and with no electronic training aids to let me know if I'm a a few % off, I at least know exactly how I'm doing, and can try to think through what is going wrong and try to fix it when that happens.

Shooting powder pistols is another matter, I have to drive the range, buy ammo or hand load, then clean the gun, all of which makes dry fire at home a good idea especially with my 1911.

But dry firing has a lot of value. If you have perfect technique (i.e. are able to squeeze the trigger without disturbing sights so that the pellet strikes within your arc of movement), spending time dry firing rather than live firing indeed does not seem useful. But if you are like most of us, the presence of the target affects your technique and not in a positive way (with the recoil further compounding things with powder guns). In this case dry firing makes sense and teaches you something useful. Of course spending 99% of your hobby time on such a boring activity is not for the majority of people.

I just checked the trigger pull on my IZH 46M and it is identical dry fire vs live fire (no measurable difference on my Lyman gauge), so maybe I should try converting one or two of my weekly live fire sessions to dry fire.

Follow through.

Body awareness.

Commit to shot.