TargetTalk

I'm interested to know why this is rare ( to not put the rifle on the rest) - is it due to equipment not allowing it making it physically awkward, or is it just too much effort, or are there other reasons for it being uncommon?

When I shot 3P smallbore and air rifle it was common to rest the rifle barrel on the scope stand or the muzzle on your foot (just don't load it while on your foot).

Mark

It isn't rare anymore. It is actually quite common. It can be extremely beneficial if you can do it. Your position doesn't move as much, and you can shoot faster.
Matt

Would it be similar to staying in position in prone long range for 22 shots? I stopped doing that when I realized my position was decaying toward the end of the string. Remounting every shot gave me a break to relax between shots and it ensured I kept the same sling and shoulder pressure. But in smallbore, without the recoil, I stay in position to ensure the cheek pressure doesn't change. A person should probably try both to see what works.

1) The gun creeps with every shot. Have to reposition after every shot.
2) Don't expect to shoot 40 or 60 shots with out putting it down. Be thinking 3 to 5 shot strings.
3) Can you load easily with the gun in position? If you cant it is a bad idea, or you need a different gun.

For many shooters it is difficult to reach the loading port. If you have to really reach or stretch you may be eliminating the benefits. With her current smallbore rifle my daughter is able to easily load in position standing. She has found it to be helpful for 5 shots, then rests the rifle.

Each time you rest the rifle and pick it up there is a simple looking but complex process to get back into position exactly as the previous shot. Loading in position can help minimize errors. Although some feel that setting the gun down each time helps to establish position better. In the end it is personal preference. I like that it reduces repetitive motion, maybe saving her back for a while.

rmarsh wrote:For many shooters it is difficult to reach the loading port. If you have to really reach or stretch you may be eliminating the benefits. With her current smallbore rifle my daughter is able to easily load in position standing. She has found it to be helpful for 5 shots, then rests the rifle.

Each time you rest the rifle and pick it up there is a simple looking but complex process to get back into position exactly as the previous shot. Loading in position can help minimize errors. Although some feel that setting the gun down each time helps to establish position better. In the end it is personal preference. I like that it reduces repetitive motion, maybe saving her back for a while.

I have a question about this. Are you saying that your daughter is staying fully in the standing position, with zero support, or dropping the rifle to a rest to support the front end? O do not think I have seen anyone who shoots at a reasonable level loading in position without the aid of a rest, either SB or AR. Even using a rest I would expect the shooter to lay the rifle down and move around a bit probably after five to ten shots.

Sorry its a bit of an old thread, I've not been too well lately.

Alan

Hey BigAl, Yes, I am saying she stays fully in position without placing the gun on the offhand stand. She typically shoots 3 to 5 shots before she rests the rifle. Even though she is quite small, the Lady Bleiker allows her to easily reach the loading port. She maintains position almost fully, although there is a slight bit of "settling in" after she loads.

As far as other shooters loading in position (standing). She was taught to do that by Matt Emmons who coaches her. He does much the same thing, loading 5 shots or more before setting the rifle on the stand. I think one reason you don't see it that much is most shooters simply can't do it easily. Matt did not until he started shooting a Bleiker, then he could reach the loading port. With an ANS, Walther, FWB...... you have to be pretty long armed to reach the port. Even tall people still have a problem reaching the port, since the taller a person is, typically the length of pull is longer, so the loading port is still often out of easy reach.

All that to go back to my original comment; if you can easily reach the loading port, there may be some advantage to loading in position. Even then, I think it is very much a personal preference. Try it, if it helps stick with it, if it don't help, don't do it.

These days I'm limited to shooting in the sitting position, pretty much as in IPC SH1a class. I cannot get a full IPC Classification as the nature of my disability doesn't fit their very proscribed classification system, so I shoot under the domestic NSRA Dispensation scheme. Anyway thanks to that I can just about manage her AR, but lifting my 1813 into position is way past my strength limit. I do think that compared to a modern rifle the 1813 is very front heavy. My daughter shoots it prone but finds it a beast, especially to use standing, compared to her LG400 Alutec. Although she is not a small girl her hands are tiny, and even prone the 1813 pistol grip seems like it is two sizes too large. She would like something smaller for SB really, maybe a KK300 or the Bliker Lady would better suit her. Trouble is we don't have £350 for a new rifle, let alone £3500.

Anyway do you find that loading in position helps with the overall speed of shooting? I guess for those shots that she is not breaking position for there is an advantage in less steps in the shot process? What about shot rejection and the processes that entails? Sorry for all the questions but it is a very interesting question. I guess your daughter is lucky to have a coach of the quality of Matt.

Alan

BigAl wrote:
Anyway do you find that loading in position helps with the overall speed of shooting? I guess for those shots that she is not breaking position for there is an advantage in less steps in the shot process? What about shot rejection and the processes that entails? Sorry for all the questions but it is a very interesting question. I guess your daughter is lucky to have a coach of the quality of Matt.

Alan

Alan, Loading in position does help with the overall speed of shooting. Since she is maintaining elbow on hip, hand position, back bend....etc. There is less to "do" between shots. Time saved is not that important during a match since she is never rushed for time. It can be an advantage in finals by allowing more time for shot rejection / reset. She does fewer "full resets" this way. By full reset, I mean putting the gun down on the stand without taking a shot. She probably does fewer "soft resets", taking a breath, lifting the head, without taking a shot. I believe this is because once she gets settled into position and the hold is good, she can then maintain that exact position for up to 5 shots without risking settling in slightly off after putting the gun down. In time she may expand to more than 5 shots, but for now that seems best. Yes, we have been very blessed and fortunate to be able to work with Matt and Troy Bassham. Both are excellent coaches / mentors and all around nice guys.

Rick, please check your pm's.