TargetTalk

The Morini CM 84E is the most used free pistol at the moment with a few TOZ, etc. What is the most used standard pistol at the world cups and other high level matches. It probably makes very little difference to a duffer like me, but I would like to stay clear of problems. I am thinking Walther GSP or another Pardini. But I have an open mind. Is the Morini Semi Auto usabale now or is it a non starter? Is th FWB worth the extra $$$$?

Thanks Guys,

Dwight

Standard Pistol isn't, of course, shot at World Cups.

Courtesy of "Igor's Blog" here's a breakdown of pistols used in the Standard Pistol event at the 2014 World Championships.

Remember that many (most?) of the shooters were there for the Olympic events; probably explaining (to some degree) the predominance of SP RFs.

Can anyone explain why the Hammerli 280 came in third after the Pardini's? It has not been made in years and I was not aware that it was popular at all with top shooters. I also thought that the polymer construction was causing problems for some people.

Probably because in 32. the 280 is a very, very good pistol, so somebody who is used to it just swaps to the .22 kit and keeps the same grip and trigger. The plastic is rarely a problem, the trigger is second to none. Problem for a lot of people is getting the thing "right" in their hand, as there is not much potential to modify the grip due to overall size of the pistol, internal size of the frame and a slightly bit strange strategic positioning of the trigger. And of course, nowadays, the spare part situation with the ¬#°#! germans. Otherwise, if you happen to like it and have a sack full of spares, good pistol.

What would a good choice for a standard pistol be? Pardini, Walther GSP, Walther SSP, or something else. Maybe a used Hammerli SP20?

Thanks,

Dwight

Get a Pardini. The support from Pardini USA is quite good. Another option would be a Benelli MP90S. Not quite as popular, but a very nice pistol.

Personally, I have experienced very poor support from Walther, and would not purchase another pistol from them. Others have had similar issues. Once they stop making a pistol, or even make a design change, they make no serious attempt to support earlier products. Hammerli used to legendary for supporting their older pistols. Try to get one fixed now that Walther owns them...

Pardini all the way. To me it's the best option. Great pistol for standard, and superb for rapid fire matches if you ever feel the hitch to try...

Hope this helps

There is no one outstanding Standard pistol. A good Rapidfire pistol does not make a good Standard pistol, a good Sport pistol is a better choice.
The trigger style, barrel, slide weight and chamber that suits rapid will knock the precision section of sport and standard pistol.
It is better to train well the 20/10 sec stage with a good precision style trigger than loose points in the 150 sec precision.
So a good Standard pistol.....Pardini, Hammerli, Morini, FWB, Walther or any other that you can buy, service and make fit your hand.

David Levene wrote:Standard Pistol isn't, of course, shot at World Cups.

Courtesy of "Igor's Blog" here's a breakdown of pistols used in the Standard Pistol event at the 2014 World Championships.

Remember that many (most?) of the shooters were there for the Olympic events; probably explaining (to some degree) the predominance of SP RFs.

I guess I'd be looking at a Pardini based on the link provided above!

- Dave

David M wrote:There is no one outstanding Standard pistol. A good Rapidfire pistol does not make a good Standard pistol, a good Sport pistol is a better choice.
The trigger style, barrel, slide weight and chamber that suits rapid will knock the precision section of sport and standard pistol.
It is better to train well the 20/10 sec stage with a good precision style trigger than loose points in the 150 sec precision.
So a good Standard pistol.....Pardini, Hammerli, Morini, FWB, Walther or any other that you can buy, service and make fit your hand.

I disagree.
The precision part of standard pistol is only 20 shots. Even if a RF pistol would be at a disadvantage here (and I don't think that it is, because you normally shoot one shot at a time), it's only a third of the match.
The 20/10 secs stages are 40 shots total, 2 thirds of the match. And this is here the match is decided. You normally lose more points in the 10 secs, so any help here is a plus. Hence the RF mentioned.

Funny how we both end up with the Pardini ;)

Hope this helps

I have a Pardini SP set up with a red dot for bullseye. I guess I could always get another. This one was about $800.00 slightly used from Don Nygord a lot of years ago, I bet we are talking 2K now. I have had several Pardinis and I find them very nice and very easy to take apart to clean. I have an ancient Hammerli American Model and an IZH 35 as well that are not bad, but the Ham. is too long, etc. Fun to shoot for fun though. I have always been taken with the Walther but they do not have the greatest reputation for support. The FWB looks nice, but pricey. The Morini seems like a great design, but I understand it has been a real problem to keep them running. Too bad their AP and FP seem to be great.

K38 wrote:..The Morini seems like a great design, but I understand it has been a real problem to keep them running....

Not that I have noticed!

So, going back to the OP.
What is better: Pardini HP with a .22 conversion kit; or Pardini SPBE with a .32swl conversion kit?

conradin wrote:So, going back to the OP.
What is better: Pardini HP with a .22 conversion kit; or Pardini SPBE with a .32swl conversion kit?

What has that got to do with the OP, it didn't mention Centre-Fire.

rmca wrote:The precision part of standard pistol is only 20 shots.

I disagree. The 20 second series is nothing more than 5 precision shots fired without bringing the gun down. Even the 10 second series allows plenty of time for recoil recovery between shots.

The scores from the World Championships show that modern guns are no substitute for proper Standard Pistol training (which is just as intensive as RF training).

rmca wrote:Hence the RF mentioned.

I think the number of RF versions used in the Standard Pistol is because approximately 50% of the competitors were there to shoot RF. Few of them would use a different gun for a match they only shoot at this level once every 2 years (at the World and Continental Championships).

I disagree. The 20 second series is nothing more than 5 precision shots fired without bringing the gun down. Even the 10 second series allows plenty of time for recoil recovery between shots.

The scores from the World Championships show that modern guns are no substitute for proper Standard Pistol training (which is just as intensive as RF training).

100% correct IMO.

David Levene wrote: The scores from the World Championships show that modern guns are no substitute for proper Standard Pistol training (which is just as intensive as RF training).

I didn't say that the pistol is a substitute for proper training.

I was saying that a RF gun would also be a good choice for standard pistol. One important thing in RF is the way the pistol performs during recoil.
That performance will help you in the 20 seconds, as you recover faster and have more time to properly align the sights for the next shot, and more so in the 10 seconds.
A more controlled "jump" is a key part for any rapid fire stage, be it in standard pistol or RF itself.
For the 150 seconds, to me it doesn't matter that much, as you have plenty of time to do the 5 shots.

Any way, just my two cents.
Hope this helps

rmca wrote:

David Levene wrote: The scores from the World Championships show that modern guns are no substitute for proper Standard Pistol training (which is just as intensive as RF training).

I didn't say that the pistol is a substitute for proper training.

My point is that Standard Pistol scores have generally gone down in the last 25-30 years.

RF guns weren't needed then and they aren't needed now.

I'm not saying that RF variants, providing they can hold the 10 ring on the 25/50m target, aren't suitable, just that they aren't needed for a "fast precision" match.

Current record individual 584, Erich Buljung (USA), 1983 in Caracas (VEN).
This World champs 196,194,191 for 581.
So top Standard scores are over 570, closer to 580.
That breaks down to 195-197 for 150 sec, 190-193 for 20 sec and 185-192 for 10 sec.
It is all precision shooting, sequence and rhythm.
You need a pistol that will shoot a lot better than a ten ring group, it needs to be a
18-25mm group. Most of the current Rapidfire pistols will not do this, if lucky they hold
the precision target ten ring, 40-50mm group.

Here is the test group from my Matchguns MG2 RF. It measures approx 7-8 mm.