TargetTalk

I saw this rifle .Does anybody know anything about Zeller or what date it was made it is Marked ULM W. Germany and Model 54 Match on the barrel length is 610MM , weighs 13.5 lb , has a heavy barrel Serial starts out w/ 1813xxx.

What would be the price window on this rifle?

It appears to be a very early 1813 Supermatch, or a very late 1613 Supermatch. If the stock is the original, the large triggerguard (to accomodate the stacked Belville washers) points to the rifle being an 1813. But the "Match 54" barrel marking is characteristic of a 1613.

If the barrel is 610mm (breech to muzzle) is has been shortened. Standard Lengfth for an Anschutz heavy has been 690mm since the mid-1960s.

What is the proof date on the Barrel? HK is 1979, IA is 1980, and IB is 1981.

OK the barrel code is "IA" marked right past the receiver on the right side.On the receiver it is marked "012345" along with "Anschutz" on the left side.The serial with the Ulm West Germany on the right side.It is a single shot rifle.

fast996
Tim S has also weighed in on this, he has incredible historical knowledge of Anschutz so his input here is helpful. I am also replying on the thread with his input so one branch of the double thread that got started will fade away.

As has been noted the IA puts this at 1980. Tim points out the trigger guard is a true 18xx trigger guard and at the same time this serial number ends in "x" which usually meant at 16xx rifle. As this was right at the transition over to the true 18xx action it is also possible Anschutz dropped a remaining 16xx action into the true 18xx stock put it in a box and shipped it. There are a few subtle differences between 16xx and 18xx, mostly the location of the catch on the release lever in the trigger. Although similar in appearance 16xx and 18xx do not share the same bolt or trigger group.

The fastest way to tell is take the bolt out and look at the bottom. If you can see into a channel and look directly at the bottom of the firing pin it is a 16xx. If the bottom of the bolt is closed it is a 18xx.

A sharp eye can also see the rear scope block is closer to the receiver than normal. This is where part of the missing 8 cm went. So I expect that Zeller pulled the barrel, cut it and rechambered it. This is usually done to create tighter chambering on the round. Unless the rear scope block was moved you cannot lop off a full 8 cm so the barrel might be cut and recrowned up front as well. This would require redrilling and tapping for the front sight block.

Having a better bead on what this is. First it looks to be in very nice condition so as my earlier conjecture, low miles. What about the other accessories the butt hook, sights, palm rest? If all of that is included then $1500 is an excellent price. If none of that is included then the price is just so so. If you can find the appropriate hook expect the price to be north of $100 easily pushing $200. If you hunt around used sights (front and rear) will again likely be $175 to $250 depending on condition and how bad you want them. New sights? about $500. Palmrest, same deal, $100 to $200 depending on style and condition. Want to upgrade to a current era buttplate? $450 gets you started. I bring all this up as without at least some of the accessories at $1500 you can easily get another $500+ into it before you are really set to go.

That is my 2 cents.

OK Tim, your turn, take it away.

'Dude

Thanks for the information .I've decided to purchase the rifle with LH models being a rare commodity in my travels. You mention Josef Zeller the only mention I can find on the internet is he is a gunsmith from Dortmund Germany and is a very good rifle maker. He specializes in custom drillings and rifles, this rifle could be a German model import. Unfortunately this had no F&R sights. The other pieces maybe included but won't know for sure till I pick up the rifle. I have read there were a few Olympic rifles mfg with a 620mm barrel these had much different serial numbers with 1980,1984 ect. in them. I don't believe this is one of those. Zeller definitely had the capability to modify this rifle action & barrel. I will report back at the end of the week.



Josef Zeller gunsmith


PS I have read that Anschutz never used the "1613" to identify there transition rifles just "1413" is that true?

Thanks

This is correct, Anschutz never marketed a model designated 1613 but this has come into common usage to describe the transition models and years. Officially they were marketed as 1413.
'Dude

I found another post regarding a LeftHand Rifle in which the owner was told it was a 1813 and it has a "IA" Barrel marking with a serial number of 177xxx X.It has a 690MM Barrel and the 1813 stock , see the image.The thread also stated that the 1613 series was made between 1974-1979 serial numbers 143665-182155.

justadude wrote: OK Tim, your turn, take it away.

'Dude

Well thank you very much 'Dude. Although I don't really have much to add.

I think I was discussing this rifle on another forum yesterday evening. I do not beleive that the barrel has been shortened. The presence of a proof mark, and a full length muzzle swell tell strongly against this . It's possible that Anschutz made a special order short barrel, but It's much more likely that 610mm is a typo. From the photos I see a full length barrel.

Until the bolt and trigger can be checked the rifle will remain in an existential quandry; is it a 1613 or an 1813? I would be interested to hear about the bolt/barrel. I have seen one other 1600 barrel/action with an 1813 bolt/trigger. That rifle was also LH, and had a very close serial number.

I'd say the stock is 1813, this is not just because of the triggerguard, but the shape of the fore-end. 1613 rifles typically have a slightly rounded fore-end. 1813 stocks are much more square, with a flat edge by the barrel channel.

fast,

Don't necessarily believe everything you read on the internet:

While the serial number range you state appears to be pretty accurate. (I personally own or owned 2 16xx actions that started 154xxx) the year range is not quite right. The 16xx did not start showing up in the US until sometime in 1977. The 1974 model year actions were 115xxx or in that range. From what I have gathered by production numbers Anschutz was not up 143xxx until at a minimum 1976 and as the oral history goes 1977. As has been noted, although the actions had the cone back bolt they were still sold as model 14xx target rifles.

Regardless of the year, as far as I have seen, going by the serial numbers 143665-182155 has been accurate with regard to the bolt and trigger being a 16xx. Now, as we have noted the serial for the rifle you are looking at starts 181xxx and has a 1980 barrel on it so once again the serial numbers and years don't quite agree.

Along the 16xx series there is one other subtle difference, early to late: straight bolt handle with small knob and curved bolt handle with large knob. I have seen a few of the early straight handle of these rifles where there was premature wear on the cam surface that brought the firing pin back when you opened the bolt. As far as I know the later curved bolt handles 16xx have not experienced this problem.

As you have indicated you are now purchasing this rifle and will need the various accessories to complete the kit, as you look for sights be sure to look for a left handed set. This will make reaching the knobs a whole bunch easier.

Cheers,

'Dude

i went and picked up the rifle today and it is a very clean rifle .It came with all the accessories ,sights front and rear,palm rest,rear hook assembly and other parts. A complete rifle I was able to purchase it for $1400 so it was not a bad deal.Bore is bright with a clean bore no pits looked at it with a bore scope. Overall it looks to be a very clean rifle with 99% blue and the same for the stock.The stock by the way is one of the darkest walnut I have ever seen.

The barrel turned out to be 690mm.

The bolt has a short channel machined down the center, looks to be a 1813 bolt .Although not sure .You can't see the firing pin ie closed.

(Could be the 1613 on a closer look.)

The case with the rifle was interesting. It is aluminum with stickers from all over the world, with some beer sticker brands I've never heard of from Germany.

Here are some pix.

That looks to be an 18xx bolt. You cannot see the bottom of the firing pin.

The final thing to check, when you take the action out of the stock look carefully at the frame of the trigger. Usually on the side of the rear mounting lug you will see either a '71' or '18' stamped into the metal. If it says '18' (which I expect that it does) you have a purebred 1813. And this is all regardless of what the serial number says!

Regardless of lineage, if you paid $1400 for all that, you got a great deal.

Happy Shooting!
'Dude

Oh yeah, while you are looking over the trigger for stamped numbers you might also see a 'L' this would be for a trigger specifically for a left handed action.

'Dude

PS, your butt plate is upside down! : )

'Dude

justadude wrote:PS, your butt plate is upside down! : )

'Dude

LOL I saw that when I picked it up.....These big retailers they don't know anything about some of the rifles they sell. Better for us.

justadude wrote:That looks to be an 18xx bolt. You cannot see the bottom of the firing pin.

The final thing to check, when you take the action out of the stock look carefully at the frame of the trigger. Usually on the side of the rear mounting lug you will see either a '71' or '18' stamped into the metal. If it says '18' (which I expect that it does) you have a purebred 1813. And this is all regardless of what the serial number says!

Regardless of lineage, if you paid $1400 for all that, you got a great deal.

Happy Shooting!
'Dude

Found a picture of the 16xx Bolt with the long slot open type, with the firing pin and spring which is on the left.The 18xx Bolt on the right with the shorter milled slot closed type.No question now that this is the 18xx Bolt.
Checked the trigger plate there is the "18" stamp on it.There is a small "L" on the corner.

Hi fast996,

your Anni is really interesting because one theory or better to say rumor says, the X number stand for a slotted bolt and X numbers were only used for the 16XX series

As i saw your pictures first, i thought, it must be an 1613 because of the X number and the dovetail blocks on the barrel. The only 'wrong' part was the new trigger guard. But on the other hand i have seen at least one 1813 with the older trigger guard so i thought that could be not an absolute criterion and some people say, Anschutz was really creative at that time, if it comes to build in parts on different rifles.

On the other side, an Anschutz from that time with a not slotted new bolt and with the new trigger guard should be an true 1813, apart from this X number and the dovetails on the barrel.


So here comes the next question. Is there any engraved text on the barrel? An original factory build barrel should have either the text "Anschutz Super-Match Mod. 1813" for an true 1813 or the text "Mod. 54 Super Match" or something like that for the older only unofficial so called 1613.

On the other hand that barrel could an later replaced custom made barrel without any text and that would also explain the dovetails.


Regards from Germany

Frank

FrankD wrote:Hi fast996,

your Anni is really interesting because one theory or better to say rumor says, the X number stand for a slotted bold and X number were only used for the 16XX series.

As i saw your pictures first, i thought, it must be an 1613 because of the X number and the dovetail blocks on the barrel. The only 'wrong' part was the new trigger guard. But on the other hand i have seen at least one 1813 with the older trigger guard so i thought that could be not an absolute criterion and some people say, Anschutz was really creative at that time, if it comes to build in parts on different rifles.

On the other side, an Anschutz from that time with a not slotted new bold and with the new trigger guard should be an true 1813, apart from this X number and the dovetails on the barrel.


So here comes the next question. Is there any engraved text on the barrel? An original factory build barrel should have either the text "Anschutz Super-Match Mod. 1813" for an true 1813 or the text "Mod. 54 Super Match" or something like that for the older only unofficial so called 1613.

On the other hand that barrel could an later replaced custom made barrel without any text and that would also explain the dovetails.


Regards from Germany

Frank

Hello Frank,

thanks for the input. Here is a photo.



I think it is a very early 1813L that was made in 1980 and is all original. Anschutz used a X receiver and barrel. The only explanation I have. Everything else seems to say this is a 1813L

And the serial # is 18133xxX now that I find interesting.

Really interesting.

But this special serial number starting with 1813 could be pure chance. Rifles form that time have six digit numbers in that number range and that X after the number.

Lets put all together.

The old text, the X number, the barrel with the dovetails are speaking for an (late) 1613.

The not slotted bolt, the testing sign IA which stands for (19)80, the new number on the trigger, the newer looking stock with the new trigger guard are speaking for an 1813.

I would say you have an real transition transition model. ;-)


But serious, the rifle looks fine and seems in good condition and i'm sure it will also perform good with the right ammo lot. So don't worry. Here in Germany you can often get more money for an good 1613 X number than for a young real 1813.


Regards

Frank

FrankD wrote:Really interesting.

But this special serial number starting with 1813 could be pure chance. Rifles form that time have six digit numbers in that number range and that X after the number.


Regards

Frank

Frank my mistake it is 6 digit 18133xX

thanks

FrankD wrote:Really interesting.

But this special serial number starting with 1813 could be pure chance. Rifles form that time have six digit numbers in that number range and that X after the number.

Lets put all together.

The old text, the X number, the barrel with the dovetails are speaking for an (late) 1613.

The not slotted bolt, the testing sign IA which stands for (19)80, the new number on the trigger, the newer looking stock with the new trigger guard are speaking for an 1813.

I would say you have an real transition transition model. ;-)


But serious, the rifle looks fine and seems in good condition and i'm sure it will also perform good with the right ammo lot. So don't worry. Here in Germany you can often get more money for an good 1613 X number than for a young real 1813.


Regards

Frank

What makes the transition 1613 model more valuable? Just curious.
Is this a very early 1813 is that your conclusion? The 1613 X Receiver and Barrel would make it a very late 1613X No? Or is the slotted open bolt what's sought after.

Thanks