TargetTalk

I read today on the news that a 9 yr old girl has killed her instructor with a sub machine at shooter training for goodness sake! What were these people thinking!! Surely the powers that let such babies shoot an extremely high power weapon need to have a look at the legislation that they so rigorously defend and protect!

Hey Critters,

Everyone I know across various shooting communities from 10m Air rifle to our centerfire rifle and pistol communities have expressed dismay that anyone would allow a 9 year old, boy or girl fire an Uzi set for fully automatic, or even fire an Uzi as their introductory firearm period, regardless of where the selector switch is set.

I know many people in foreign countries question the firearm culture in the United States. This has little to do with firearm laws and regulations and everything to do with common sense. You don't start a new driver in a large displacement multi hundred horsepower sportscar for their first driving lesson, you don't introduce people to shooting with a sub caliber machine gun set to fire fully auto. As the saying goes in this country, you cannot legislate common sense.

Sadly, this young girl gets to live her life knowing she killed someone. : (

In the meantime, I remind everyone that there is lots to be said for starting people with a single shot 22.

'Dude

Although sad, this was an isolated incident. So was the shooting of a cameraman on the "Cops" tv show. Certainly procedures should be reviewed and changes made to effect good safety. All that being said, we don't need politicians, who are totally ignorant of such matters, passing draconian laws that do nothing constructive. I prefer to live in freedom.

Would it be a "draconian law" if they were to mandate that one must be, for example, 14 years old before being permitted to fire a fully automatic weapon? Seems to me that in terms of both physical strength and emotional development an age around 14 would make some sense. 9, for a gun many adults find difficult to control? This seems bizarre. I listened to the owner of Burgers & Guns being interviewed last night on the CBC's 'As It Happens' radio program. He was hyper-defensive, saying repeatedly that in their years of operation in two locations they'd never had need of so much as a bandaid, and that their policy was to allow anyone over the age of 8 to try full auto weapons. He assured the interviewer repeatedly that instructors stand behind shooters, hands ready to prevent this sort of extreme muzzle climb. Well the video is everywhere (he claimed not to have seen it) and it is plain that the "active duty soldier" who was 'teaching' this small girl to shoot an Uzi broke that rule, along with a few others. A single shot, after a hasty prodding into a shooting stance, then WHEEEEE let's flip the fun switch! Idiot cost that girl considerable innocence. I'd like to hear that charges are pressed against both the range and the parents.

Let's put some perspective on it. The US population is approaching 318,800,000. Gun deaths, car deaths, drug abuse, etc, etc, etc, that media sensationalizes and bleeding hearts fret about don't make much of a splash in the big pond. If the whiners have their way, mankind would be living in a totalitarian system with cradle to grave diapers.

slofyr wrote:Let's put some perspective on it. The US population is approaching 318,800,000. Gun deaths, car deaths, drug abuse, etc, etc, etc, that media sensationalizes and bleeding hearts fret about don't make much of a splash in the big pond. If the whiners have their way, mankind would be living in a totalitarian system with cradle to grave diapers.

Oh, please! Save the drama! Things like a minimum age as we have always accepted for driving, drinking and military service or universal background checks do not constitute a totalitarian system.

The first gun my wife, 12 year old daughter and 8 year old son shot was a MG34. It was on a tripod in a gravel pit owed by a friend. There were a bunch of AKs and and ARs there as well. My wife went on to shoot a handgun and my kids, a single shot 22 that day. My kids now shoot with 4H and compete in biathlons. Am I Evil?

I think that the decision is better made by parents, not by the government. These tragic accidents are on the decline in the U.S., as well as, violent crime. You'd never know it with the wide and quick dissemination of news today.

My daughter was 6 when she shot for the first time (bolt action .22) and age 12 when she shot a full auto firearm. She's in the video at 1:45 shooting an HK and you can see how he positions himself to keep weight into the shoulder and ready to prevent muzzle flip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i4Gbj5 ... yHS2HhWAFw

The instructor was to blame for this terrible accident... not the girl and not the parents. He should have had it set for burst and not full auto.

The thing that really gets me over this whole thing is why would anyone want to use a high powered weapon anyway? Surely common sense would dictate a small person has no understanding and the brain development to cope with such weapons. Obviously the Gun Lobby is a big movement over there in the States.Just watching the international news where your senators come out and say its our right to defend ourselves really does say it all.Ok that's fine if that the majority thinking.But surely not small children?

No one can legislate "common sense", especially politicians. I look at the restrictions in the Commonwealth countries. Granted the politicians did not let a tragedy go to waste, but I do not want to loose the rights I have, even if I choose not to exercise all of them. Any legislation in the USA would be be the tip of the iceberg, and the launching point for something more restrictive. I base that comment on restrictions now in place in New York, Connecticut, California, Colorado and Maryland. I also look at the restrictions in, and what I would have to do to go to Australia, England, New Zealand, and Canada and bring a bolt action rifle. I've competed in Canada, and it isn't pleasant crossing the border to compete. I don't want that for the USA.

John

dontshootcritters wrote:The thing that really gets me over this whole thing is why would anyone want to use a high powered weapon anyway?

That is not your decision to force on anyone else. If you don't want to, that is fine, but don't tell anyone else what they can, or can not do. Using or not using a "high powered weapon" is a personal choice.

John

Not wanting this whole thing to get personal in any way and have no interest in what adults do withtheir time.It was more the age of the user that I was concerned with.But hey knock yourself out and shoot what ever you like

dontshootcritters wrote:Not wanting this whole thing to get personal in any way and have no interest in what adults do withtheir time.It was more the age of the user that I was concerned with.But hey knock yourself out and shoot what ever you like

Then why reply like that?

This was obviously the "instructors" fault.
A failure of common sense.

Sometimes you pay a high price for your failures, sometimes someone else does:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/30/ne ... est-drive/
(It ain't just w/ firearms)

In my 4-H program we've had kids a young as 7 years old. We start them on air rifles or BB-guns off a bench with the instructor sitting beside them, one hand on the rifle ... at that point in their shooting careers, safety is the only goal ... hit the backstop ... if they hit the target taped to it, all the better.

I don't often like chipping into these threads but I will wade into the mix with a thought.

Safety is everyones business, if you see anything dodgy on a range your action or inaction could save/cost someones life.

Giving an Uzi to a 9 year old in my books is a bit mad, but I bet it has happened before in other cases where the outcome wasn't so grim. I think awhile back I saw a video of a 6-7 year old on a 7.62 Minigun (pintle mounted).

There is often a fine line between unsafe, but fun and unsafe, and not fun.

Also watch your drills on range, awhile back I swept my forearm with a Unique DES-69 while boxing it - obviously cleared etc. but my own standards slipped and was a bit of an eyeopener for me when I caught myself doing something unsafe and something I quietly reflected on.

It is wrong that someone died. It is wrong that a child will have to live with the memory of it. It is wrong that safety protocol was not followed. I could go on.
But when did a 9x19 become a high power round.

bob-55 wrote: But when did a 9x19 become a high power round.

Haven't you noticed? ALL firearms that are mentioned in news stories now shoot "high power" rounds.

Also, all semi-automatic rifles are "automatic weapons", everything else is an "assault rifle" and machine guns can be bought easily at gun shows (if you're a Democrat).

On reflection, I misspoke above. "High power" in Newspeak does not refer to the cartridge at all. To avoid further confusion, here is the official Newspeak definition of "high power".

Any one of the following types of firearms is by definition "high power":
1. a black and scary looking gun.
2. a rifle with any of several add-ons, such as a forward grip.
3. a handgun with the magazine in front of the trigger guard.
4. a rifle.
5. a handgun.

Under certain circumstances, a shotgun may be exempt.