TargetTalk

After reading some articles about grip I have been working on firming mine.
It seems that I am not shooting as well as before when I took a more relaxed grip.

This weekend all my shots were running a couple of inches low. I don't believe I was applying too much force with my pinkey or jerking the trigger, I don't believe it's the ammo at all. I am somewhat frustrated.

My reading consists of the US Army Marksmanship unit, it is dedicated to Bullsye 1 handed shooting and they advocate a grip just below tremor level.


Thoughts, suggestions?

Experiment with the grip while watching your sight. Go with what works best for position, alignment and stability.

chiltech500 wrote:After reading some articles about grip I have been working on firming mine.
It seems that I am not shooting as well as before when I took a more relaxed grip.

This weekend all my shots were running a couple of inches low. I don't believe I was applying too much force with my pinkey or jerking the trigger, I don't believe it's the ammo at all. I am somewhat frustrated.

Recoil and muzzle rise start the instant the cartridge is ignited, so the muzzle is pointed a little higher (than you initially aimed) when the bullet leaves the barrel. This is unavoidable physics and is called "the angle of departure". No problem as long as it's consistent. When you gripped consistently tighter, you allowed less of an angle of departure than you had previously done, so the shots were consistently low. Once you decide how tight you're going to grip and are doing it consistently, just adjust the sights to compensate.

HTH,
FredB

FredB wrote:

chiltech500 wrote:After reading some articles about grip I have been working on firming mine.
It seems that I am not shooting as well as before when I took a more relaxed grip.

This weekend all my shots were running a couple of inches low. I don't believe I was applying too much force with my pinkey or jerking the trigger, I don't believe it's the ammo at all. I am somewhat frustrated.

Recoil and muzzle rise start the instant the cartridge is ignited, so the muzzle is pointed a little higher (than you initially aimed) when the bullet leaves the barrel. This is unavoidable physics and is called "the angle of departure". No problem as long as it's consistent. When you gripped consistently tighter, you allowed less of an angle of departure than you had previously done, so the shots were consistently low. Once you decide how tight you're going to grip and are doing it consistently, just adjust the sights to compensate.

HTH,
FredB

Fred makes some excellent points.
a couple of further ones.

Grip needs to be consistent through the shot process. People who haven't trained up their hand for a tight grip run into problems.

One of these is relaxing your grip was the shot leaves the barrel, or shortly before. This is an anticipation error.

The other problem, is a tight grip retards your trigger finger. You may have to change your trigger finger position or your trigger to go along with that tight grip.

By the way, the AMU does not necessarily recommend a really tight grip.

Jim Henderson preaches a medium to light grip, just enough to control recoil, during sustained fire, without your hand shifting on the grip.

Myself, I find, wrist stability is even more important than grip. You start adjusting your sights with your wrist, and bad things happen.

[quote="Isabel1130"]

Myself, I find, wrist stability is even more important than grip. You start adjusting your sights with your wrist, and bad things happen.

This is really important it will also make the dot move less as you work on the trigger.

Thanks for the great replies. A lot of very good thoughts that as I think about them I did experience them in action.

Fred your information is a very valuable insight to me. I noticed this weekend watching the sight that it did indeed seem to rise, which I never noticed before probably because I wasn't watching as closely as I should have been follow through wise.

I did notice with a tight grip that I struggled with the trigger a bit, in fact as I became fatigued a non-trigger job 4-5 lb trigger started feeling like 100 lbs.

Larry Carter coaches to hold the gun as firmly as you would hold a hammer.

The AMU (Army Marksmanship Unit) says that an instructor would come by and try to rip the pistol out of the shooters hand by the muzzle, that it needed to be held tight enough not to pull out.

I guess tightness is subjective in a way. I don't think I grip a hammer as tightly as I was trying to grip the pistol based on the AMU story.

chiltech500 wrote:The AMU (Army Marksmanship Unit) says that an instructor would come by and try to rip the pistol out of the shooters hand by the muzzle, that it needed to be held tight enough not to pull out.

I guess tightness is subjective in a way. I don't think I grip a hammer as tightly as I was trying to grip the pistol based on the AMU story.

How long ago did the AMU say this?


Because at the AMU clinics at Camp Perry, for the last six years, Jim Henderson tells people to hold the gun with the same amount of force that they would use to hold the hand of a well behaved child to cross the street (not a naughty child)

Speaking of grip. Have you tried the Zins grip?

when you see the linseed oil drip from your hand then your grip is right.. Stated from my instructor and distinguished shooter.. He shot in the army shooting team for years. Of course the old army team shot 45 hardball all the time no wadcutters back in the day. try hardball for a full match next time you shoot a 2700. Don't try shooting 45 hardball with a lose or med. grip!!! Once I got the grip right and consistent my scores went from marksman to master in less than a year

I believe your grip and wrist strength starts back by your elbow with the larger muscles of the forearm.

hill987 wrote:when you see the linseed oil drip from your hand then your grip is right.. Stated from my instructor and distinguished shooter.. He shot in the army shooting team for years. Of course the old army team shot 45 hardball all the time no wadcutters back in the day. try hardball for a full match next time you shoot a 2700. Don't try shooting 45 hardball with a lose or med. grip!!! Once I got the grip right and consistent my scores went from marksman to master in less than a year

If you are over 50, I am going to suggest that you not do this. I know more than one shooter who has given themselves a first class case of tennis elbow by using too tight a grip.(or shooting too much hardball)

For older shooters, everthing is a trade off.


One of the reasons that the Zins grip works well, is because it works with the physical structure of your hand to drive the recoil back through your arm and shoulder, rather than trying to control the recoil through hand and wrist strength alone.

Very good information indeed.

Having a pre-existing propensity for tennis elbow based on past activities, my grip needs to accommodate for sure (and I am over 50) :) I have a hard time keeping my elbow locked and arm rigid.

The AMU handbook I downloaded on PDF is probably dated based on the pen and ink drawings in it. I gladly accept the updated views on grip I am reading here.