TargetTalk

I know that it has been discussed many times, but I am a bit confused....can anybody help pleas?.

For example rmca wrote that one has to find the natural position. I tend to agree with that.
My natural stable position is nearly vertical. So I have tried only for one training session to set the lp10e at about 100 degrees with barrel axis. As a result my scores, which are stack since weeks at 358/400, jumped to 365/400.

Now the problem is that my natural position requires the grip nearly at 90 -100 degrees to the barrel, I.e. Nearly vertical. Fortunately the LP10e allows that. I only had to substitute the adjustment screws , from the factory M3x6 to M3x10. The inclination is so extreme that the recoil absorber at the back is completely exposed.

With such a position I can have the forearm muscle in tension and the wrist is very stable. All the times that I manage to keep the hand muscle completely relaxed (as Cesare Morini advised me when he made my grip) , despite the contracted forearm muscles, I get at least 10.0.

So it seems the perfect solution. However everybody at the club tells me that no professional shooter adopts such an extreme grip-barrel angle. Also I often read that it is important to have an angle at about 120-135 degrees with barrel for better wrist stability. But with that angle I cannot contract the forearm muscle, or so I feel.

I have to say that the only draw back is that after 50-60 shots my forearm muscles get tired and the muzzle starts pointing downwards. I also had the feeling that the muzzle was flipping upwards, but I doubt that myself as the adsorbed seems to work fine.

Any comment?

therider wrote: But with that angle I cannot contract the forearm muscle,

Why do you want to?

therider

First let me say that it's extremely difficult to tell you to correct this or that without seeing it in person.

Now, it sounds to me like you are trying to hold your pistol by contracting your arm muscles like you would in a large caliber pistol. And that's why the more upright grip position is more comfortable. Perhaps you are doing this to try and minimize the arc of movement. While this may work for you at first, it does take up a lot more energy, and provokes much more fatigue than a more "open" angle. That means that you will start to shoot well and then deteriorate as the match progresses.

In FP and AP you don't need to exert much more force than needed to support the weight of the gun. Your arm should be extended and "locked", but in a comfortable and "relaxed" way. It sounds like two opposite things but they are not. It's like if you'd picked up a stick and were using it to point at something far away. Like your arm is hanging from it's tendons with very little muscle force.

Pick up your pistol and with you arm properly extended but relaxed, let the pistol "set in", don't force the front sight anywhere. Let it find it's place. Close your eyes when you do this. Then adjust the grip so that your sights line up when the pistol is in that relaxed position. You should be able to lift your pistol with your eyes closed and when you open them, your sights should be lined up.

The results from this change will not be instantaneous, it will take some getting used to. But in the long run it will help you the most.

Again, it's very difficult to say what you should do without seeing. A more upright position could suit you better...

Try to find a coach or someone more experienced than you and ask him. This is the kind of thing where details matter a lot... and the only way to help is by watching.

Read this, even if it's not the first time you do so.

http://www.issf-sports.org/academy/trai ... istol.ashx

Pay particular attention to:
Requirements - Precision Position
Right Hand Position

Hope this helps

David Levene wrote:

therider wrote: But with that angle I cannot contract the forearm muscle,

Why do you want to?

As David rightly says, why would you ?

You should be shooting in a relaxed state as much as possible. Contracting muscles will lead to tension and fatigue and you'll probably develope tennis elbow if you stick with it.

I fully endorse RMCA's post about reading that piece on the ISSF academy website and apply the fundamental principles.

I would suggest it doesn't matter if you shoot different to the norm, if it works. But I would be wary of doing so without properly trying and evaluating the more usual position.

Rob.

David & Rob,
thanks for your comment.

I guess that i was mislead by things I have read. I am thinking, for example, at a post in here (cannot remember who wrote it) where the author wrote that during training he was slapping the hand of trainees to be shure that they had enough locking in the wrist.

In fact I was surprised, when 10 days ago I went again to Cesare Morini to make some corrections to the grip and he once again not only repeated that with that grip I had to have a very small grip force, but in addition that the wrist muscles had to be relaxed.

Apparently I have completely missed out the point!

RMCA
thanks for your detailed reply.
In reality I am very happy with my arc of movement. After I worm up, say after 20 shots, my arc of movement is really very limited, and I cannot believe I can do any better there. In addition I really saw a considereable improvement since I have a completely relaxed hand.
I now understand the meaning of 'locked' wrist... I had misunderstood the concept, and , unfortunately I had an improvement with contracted wrist muscles, although as you say fatigue comes much earlier.

Thanks

hi! take a look at this article on ruig's excellent blog:
http://toz35.blogspot.de/2010/01/die-gr ... -beim.html

anything that helps getting results is right, but anatoli has some very interesting ideas here...

flolo wrote:hi! take a look at this article on ruig's excellent blog:
http://toz35.blogspot.de/2010/01/die-gr ... -beim.html

anything that helps getting results is right, but anatoli has some very interesting ideas here...

Great article! I read it yesterday night when I came back from shooting. All the tens which I shot yesterday came when things happened as recommended in the article!
Danke