Hey everyone my coach wants to build me an Olympic style rifle and he has suggested Boyd's stocks for me to search for some. However on their website there are so many makes and models to chose from I cant seem to find anything for competition. I wanted a stock that looks professional and is nice quality. Anyone that has any stocks they know of on Boyd or other sites it would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Rifle stocks
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
What action/barrel do you want to use for this project?
If it's an Anschutz Match 54 (including 18 and 19 series rifles), have you thought of using an Anschutz stock? These are already inlet, and with a few caveats*, the barrel can be bolted in with no gunsmithing needed. Anschutz currently make both wood (1907, 1914, and 1913) stocks and aluminium (1918). Used stocks appear for sale regularly; these may have less ergonomic adjustment than new stocks, but are still pefectly good. There are many after-market stocks that will fit an Anschutz Match 54, such as the Grunig & Elmiger, MEC, System Gemini and others.
Having looked over Boyds website, they don't appear to make anything that is suitable for Olympic style rifle shooting. They have lots of slender stocks for hunting rifles, but nothing that offers the consistent fit needed for target shooting.
*These are the inlet for the trigger box, and the bedding. Pre-'77 rifles have a smaller trigger, so the inlet in the stock may need to be enlarged to take a newer action. Regarding the bedding, it's common to chisel back the original surface, and set the action on a layer of epoxy resin. The epoxy often (but not always) extends under the barrel ffor 1-2in. A stock that has been bedded for a 1413/1813/1913 heavy barrel will not accept a 1407/1807/907 light barrel without work. This is becuase the light barrel has a breeching nut that is wider than the heavy barrel.
If it's an Anschutz Match 54 (including 18 and 19 series rifles), have you thought of using an Anschutz stock? These are already inlet, and with a few caveats*, the barrel can be bolted in with no gunsmithing needed. Anschutz currently make both wood (1907, 1914, and 1913) stocks and aluminium (1918). Used stocks appear for sale regularly; these may have less ergonomic adjustment than new stocks, but are still pefectly good. There are many after-market stocks that will fit an Anschutz Match 54, such as the Grunig & Elmiger, MEC, System Gemini and others.
Having looked over Boyds website, they don't appear to make anything that is suitable for Olympic style rifle shooting. They have lots of slender stocks for hunting rifles, but nothing that offers the consistent fit needed for target shooting.
*These are the inlet for the trigger box, and the bedding. Pre-'77 rifles have a smaller trigger, so the inlet in the stock may need to be enlarged to take a newer action. Regarding the bedding, it's common to chisel back the original surface, and set the action on a layer of epoxy resin. The epoxy often (but not always) extends under the barrel ffor 1-2in. A stock that has been bedded for a 1413/1813/1913 heavy barrel will not accept a 1407/1807/907 light barrel without work. This is becuase the light barrel has a breeching nut that is wider than the heavy barrel.
Thank you so much! I noticed that Boyds don't really offer many competition stocks so could you tell me a website where I can find an Anschutz stock like you mentioned? He doesn't want to but one from a dealer like Champions Choice he wants to build one. He wants Shilen rifle actions and Lilja barrels
Are you interested in shooting 300m or the other events? The 300m uses a centerfire gun, the others a .22LR. I don't think Shilen makes a .22LR action ... but check me on this.
I don't mean to be rude here at all, I really don't. This is just one shooters observation so take it as that. Having said that:
I have to say your coach doesn't know much, if anything, about Olympic shooting or building match grade guns for that matter.
While his action and barrel choice are fine (if you are going for a center-fire rifle), his recommendation of Boyd's stocks is very suspect. I've shot OTC and LR for decades and can honestly say I've never seen a Boyd's stock on the line. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I've never seen one.
They make a fine line of hunting / sporter / tactical "run & gun" type of stocks ... and marginally useful after-market service-rifle stocks for the M1 / 1903 / 1917 types of military guns. They are only marginal, as the inletting on their semi-finished guns is sloppy and makes doing an accuracy job on these old war-horses difficult. There "drop in" stocks are just plain too loose to be of value unless you just want a "plinker".
I've never heard of a decent rifle builder just say to a client ... go out to a stock maker's site and pick a stock. They have very definite ideas as to what they want to work with. Does Boyd's even supply a stock to fit a Shilen action? Why did he direct you to a stock maker that does not manufacture match style stocks if he wants to build you an Olympic style match gun?
By the time you purchase a Shilen action and a top of the line barrel, you are spending more money than a complete Anschutz rig, and you still need to find a stock, sights, butt plate, adjustable comb (if not already on the stock), bottom metal, trigger guard and other things like a rail for weights or a hand-stop if you are shooting position.
After you put together this custom gun, I'd be very surprised if it performed better than an Anschutz, what does your coach know about building champion grade guns that they don't?
An Anschutz (or Walther etc. Olympic style guns) will have a host of accessories you can purchase right off the shelf, or on the used marked (triggers, butt plates, hooks, sights, etc. etc. ) that will all just go right on the gun. There is a large and vibrant used market for these items and you can always resell your kit with little problem.
I hope this helps ... I'm not trying to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but just point out what I think for you would be a better path to follow. But what do I know?
I don't mean to be rude here at all, I really don't. This is just one shooters observation so take it as that. Having said that:
I have to say your coach doesn't know much, if anything, about Olympic shooting or building match grade guns for that matter.
While his action and barrel choice are fine (if you are going for a center-fire rifle), his recommendation of Boyd's stocks is very suspect. I've shot OTC and LR for decades and can honestly say I've never seen a Boyd's stock on the line. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I've never seen one.
They make a fine line of hunting / sporter / tactical "run & gun" type of stocks ... and marginally useful after-market service-rifle stocks for the M1 / 1903 / 1917 types of military guns. They are only marginal, as the inletting on their semi-finished guns is sloppy and makes doing an accuracy job on these old war-horses difficult. There "drop in" stocks are just plain too loose to be of value unless you just want a "plinker".
I've never heard of a decent rifle builder just say to a client ... go out to a stock maker's site and pick a stock. They have very definite ideas as to what they want to work with. Does Boyd's even supply a stock to fit a Shilen action? Why did he direct you to a stock maker that does not manufacture match style stocks if he wants to build you an Olympic style match gun?
By the time you purchase a Shilen action and a top of the line barrel, you are spending more money than a complete Anschutz rig, and you still need to find a stock, sights, butt plate, adjustable comb (if not already on the stock), bottom metal, trigger guard and other things like a rail for weights or a hand-stop if you are shooting position.
After you put together this custom gun, I'd be very surprised if it performed better than an Anschutz, what does your coach know about building champion grade guns that they don't?
An Anschutz (or Walther etc. Olympic style guns) will have a host of accessories you can purchase right off the shelf, or on the used marked (triggers, butt plates, hooks, sights, etc. etc. ) that will all just go right on the gun. There is a large and vibrant used market for these items and you can always resell your kit with little problem.
I hope this helps ... I'm not trying to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but just point out what I think for you would be a better path to follow. But what do I know?
Last edited by DLS on Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An Anschutz stock will not fit a Shilen action without a great deal of modification.Bbryer33 wrote:Thank you so much! I noticed that Boyds don't really offer many competition stocks so could you tell me a website where I can find an Anschutz stock like you mentioned? He doesn't want to but one from a dealer like Champions Choice he wants to build one. He wants Shilen rifle actions and Lilja barrels
I agree with DLS that buying a factory rifle is certainly the easy way to go, but it isn't the only way; there are posts on this forum from shooters who have decided to build their own rifle from parts. 2012 US Olympian Eric Uptagrafft (a regular contributor to this forum) designed and built his own action to replace an Anschutz.
If your coach doesn't want to buy an Anschutz stock, perhaps he should look at www.masterclassstocks.com and www.doantrevor.com. These are respected custom stock/rifle makers.
I have to ask, is your coach building the rifle for you, or for himself?
If your coach doesn't want to buy an Anschutz stock, perhaps he should look at www.masterclassstocks.com and www.doantrevor.com. These are respected custom stock/rifle makers.
I have to ask, is your coach building the rifle for you, or for himself?
I really like the looks of this one http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... tem=008269
where would there be a barrel and action available for this rifle?
where would there be a barrel and action available for this rifle?
For me if I was looking at shooting 3p it would be the system Gemini (which I have) or the walther anatomic. It does though depend on your stature - I'm quite short so need a stock that can be adjusted small enough for me. And of you course you need to pick a stock you like the feel and balance of.
Rob.
Rob.
You would match that stock with either a 1907 Anschutz Match 54 Action and the slimmer 660mm barrel if you prefer a lighter rifle with the balance more to the rear. Otherwise it would be the 1913 again a Match 54 action but this time with the heavier profile longer 690mm barrel, which would be the action fitted as standard when it is sold as a complete rifle off the shelf.Bbryer33 wrote:I really like the looks of this one http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... tem=008269
where would there be a barrel and action available for this rifle?
Although wood is nice, if I were building a new rifle for 3P shooting I would definitely go with one of the aluminum stocks. Either the 1918 Precise if going with the Anschutz factory option or personally I like the Kepler stock, although both the System Gemini and also the MEC stocks are also very good.
I have been an Anschutz user since I started shooting smallbore at the age of 13, but I would actually now suggest the best all round option would be the Walther KK300 Alutec.
Alan
That's the current version of the 1913. It is entirely suitable for 3-P shooting. As Alan noted, it can be paired with a 1913 (heavy 27in) barrel, or a 1907 (26in light) barrel. If you chose a used barrel for financial reasons, an older 1813/1807 (1980s vintage) or 1413/1407 ('50s/'60s''70s vintage) would fit too.Bbryer33 wrote:I really like the looks of this one http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... tem=008269
where would there be a barrel and action available for this rifle?
Your coach being a pistol 'smith makes sense too. As I understand it, custom grips are nearly universal to get a fit for an individual hand. Fit is just as important in rifle shooting, but in a different way. The main contact points are the shoulder (buttplate) and face (cheekpiece). A cheap stock won't fit as well as a proper target stock.
Last edited by Tim S on Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
No one else has mentioned this, so let me throw this out: with what you've mentioned about your coach and his lack of knowledge in Olympic rifle, you may be best served by finding a coach who is knowledgeable about the rifle disciplines. That he is highly resistant to buying a factory action and that he has you looking at Boyd's for a target stock, make me think he is likely not the best person to be guiding your rifle shooting endeavors at the moment, considering that it sounds like you are to the point at which large amounts of money come into play with good guidance, and enormous amounts enter in when you DON'T have good guidance. I mean no offense to your coach; he sounds like he's very supportive of your desires to go far in 3P. But he also sounds like he might not be the best person to guide you down your chosen path. It's certainly something to consider, and if you share your location and general age (junior, adult, collegiate, etc.), I'm sure people here can point you in the proper direction for another coach/club.
With that said, you can just buy a complete rifle from Champion's choice. Given that you need everything, including sights, I would suggest a Walther KK300/Anatomic package. It comes with everything you need to start shooting 3P, including sights, a sight riser set, a handstop, and a stock riser block for offhand. At $4300 it seems pricey, but by the time you put together everything that comes with it you're going to be close in price anyway.
Good luck in your shooting career, and I hope you find something nice for a rifle!
With that said, you can just buy a complete rifle from Champion's choice. Given that you need everything, including sights, I would suggest a Walther KK300/Anatomic package. It comes with everything you need to start shooting 3P, including sights, a sight riser set, a handstop, and a stock riser block for offhand. At $4300 it seems pricey, but by the time you put together everything that comes with it you're going to be close in price anyway.
Good luck in your shooting career, and I hope you find something nice for a rifle!
Last edited by mtncwru on Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Thedrifter
- Posts: 281
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:26 am
- Location: San Antonio, TX
I agree with the guy who said the coach is building the rifle for himself not for you.
There is no reason to reinvent the wheel. You don't give any specifics as to your size, sex, budget or experience but a good place to start is Champions Choice or Champion Shooters Supply. Both are owned by experience international shooters and know exactly what would fit your needs.
While Master Class stocks makes excellent stocks they are only for prone shooters. Also be sure to get an Anschutz 54 or 2000 action not the 64 action which is not nearly as good.
There is no reason to reinvent the wheel. You don't give any specifics as to your size, sex, budget or experience but a good place to start is Champions Choice or Champion Shooters Supply. Both are owned by experience international shooters and know exactly what would fit your needs.
While Master Class stocks makes excellent stocks they are only for prone shooters. Also be sure to get an Anschutz 54 or 2000 action not the 64 action which is not nearly as good.
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Thedrifter
- Posts: 281
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:26 am
- Location: San Antonio, TX
I am a little late to this party but agree with the majority. What is so particular about your situation that you need to build a custom rifle for 3P?
If you were shooting a front line rifle right now, Anschutz, FWB, Walther and could identify a specific need to advance then pursue that need. It sounds like you are just getting started so all the custom gear could easily be more headaches than help.
If you look at the finals lineup at something like the world cup most of those elite shooter have production stocks and actions with the only thing custom being an aftermarket barrel. Now mind you, that action and barrel are carefully tuned but the action is production.
Talk to your favorite dealer, even take a trip so you can handle a few rifles, and make a decision. Don't worry about custom if you are just getting going, simply not necessary.
'Dude
If you were shooting a front line rifle right now, Anschutz, FWB, Walther and could identify a specific need to advance then pursue that need. It sounds like you are just getting started so all the custom gear could easily be more headaches than help.
If you look at the finals lineup at something like the world cup most of those elite shooter have production stocks and actions with the only thing custom being an aftermarket barrel. Now mind you, that action and barrel are carefully tuned but the action is production.
Talk to your favorite dealer, even take a trip so you can handle a few rifles, and make a decision. Don't worry about custom if you are just getting going, simply not necessary.
'Dude
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Bob Smalser
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:26 pm
- Location: Seabeck, Washington
- Contact:
Making 3P stocks almost never pays because of the high cost of the stock hardware. Even used on eBay.
The best way to acquire a competitive 3P rifle for a reasonable price is to buy an older one that was built for the purpose, as the barrels on rifles in good condition rarely are worn out, except perhaps by cleaning rods. But as a top-quality replacement barrel can be had for around 400 bucks, buying older rifles is worth the risk.
For the past couple years, I've been buying all the Anschutz Match 54's, 1413's and 1613's I can find if the price is right to pass along to club families in need of a good 3P rifle, as IMO they are the best values out there. I've been paying between $800-1000 for 54's and 1413's with double-claw extractors and the older triggers, depending on condition, and $11-1400 for later models with side safeties and newer triggers. Often they come fully equipped. Other makes can be fine, but more difficult to find parts for, and I'd steer clear of older Annies and Walthers with single-claw extractors, as the bolts are harder to work and they tend to pull the heads off snap caps in dry fire practice.
Blue Book on a 54 is $850 or so in top condition, but I find they tend to go for more than Blue Book.
Besides Gunbroker, Cabelas Armslist and the like, this one I acquired recently from a small auction house via Proxybid.com for 800 bucks:
And here's a 1613 I recently paid $1100 for with everything you see sans case, scope, prone stock and fancy adjustable apertures.
No matter how you try, you'll have a hard time beating those values, and I've either bought or passed on equal values a half dozen times in the past 6 months.
The best way to acquire a competitive 3P rifle for a reasonable price is to buy an older one that was built for the purpose, as the barrels on rifles in good condition rarely are worn out, except perhaps by cleaning rods. But as a top-quality replacement barrel can be had for around 400 bucks, buying older rifles is worth the risk.
For the past couple years, I've been buying all the Anschutz Match 54's, 1413's and 1613's I can find if the price is right to pass along to club families in need of a good 3P rifle, as IMO they are the best values out there. I've been paying between $800-1000 for 54's and 1413's with double-claw extractors and the older triggers, depending on condition, and $11-1400 for later models with side safeties and newer triggers. Often they come fully equipped. Other makes can be fine, but more difficult to find parts for, and I'd steer clear of older Annies and Walthers with single-claw extractors, as the bolts are harder to work and they tend to pull the heads off snap caps in dry fire practice.
Blue Book on a 54 is $850 or so in top condition, but I find they tend to go for more than Blue Book.
Besides Gunbroker, Cabelas Armslist and the like, this one I acquired recently from a small auction house via Proxybid.com for 800 bucks:
And here's a 1613 I recently paid $1100 for with everything you see sans case, scope, prone stock and fancy adjustable apertures.
No matter how you try, you'll have a hard time beating those values, and I've either bought or passed on equal values a half dozen times in the past 6 months.
Bob
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Bob Smalser
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:26 pm
- Location: Seabeck, Washington
- Contact:
Got it, thanks.
I've been going through old Anschutz ads to find some obvious keys for dating these older 54's in auction listings that my juniors can use when perusing these auctions. Perhaps others can help.
Single-claw to double-claw extractors - ca1962?
Checkering to stippling - ca1964?
Adding two-number year dates to barrels - 1968?
Fixed-hook to removable-hook buttplates - ca1970?
Wing Safety to Side-Safety triggers? - 1980?
I've been going through old Anschutz ads to find some obvious keys for dating these older 54's in auction listings that my juniors can use when perusing these auctions. Perhaps others can help.
Single-claw to double-claw extractors - ca1962?
Checkering to stippling - ca1964?
Adding two-number year dates to barrels - 1968?
Fixed-hook to removable-hook buttplates - ca1970?
Wing Safety to Side-Safety triggers? - 1980?
Bob