TargetTalk

Looking for pics of Moritz Minder shooting, preferably at the WC 1978 in Seoul (where he shot the world record at that time, 577). Trying to solve the riddle which pistol he used for that - I have pics of him using (different) MC55, and one that might be a TOZ, both undated. And the pistol that is shown in the Swiss shooting museum, allegedly with a Seoul equipment control sticker on it, is inscribed with TO3-35, so a TOZ. Anybody have a pic of him actually at the competition?

The photograph that was published that year in the UIT-Journal shows him with a MU-55 with modified sights and grips. One fellow shooter of mine who was present at the WCH Seoul 1978 told me years later (when I acquired my MU-55-1) that my pistol was the same as Minder's. He did all his FP shooting with a TOZ-35, so I'd trust him with telling the difference.

Here is the famous caption:

Yes, and then there is the pic on http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... 0Part1.pdf, which might or might not be the same pistol (front sight is different, which lets me think that the rear sight must be at a different height etc.). And then I've seen another one in a book, where he is clearly using a MC-55, but one that looks completely different (different barrel, front sight base, screws on the receiver clearly visible, slimmer grip etc.).

And then the chronicles of his club mention him using a pistol with an electronic trigger...

Tycho:

You're from Switzerland...... can't you reach Mr. Minder or (if unfortunately he should've passed away) any of his family members or even shooting fellows, and ask directly??

Well, he died in 1987 or so :-/ and he was from an area that is not exactly close to any kind of civilization :-)

I actually know a few people who knew him (and shot with him) at the time, and I will certainly ask them when I see them, but you can calculate their age and come up with the answer as to how approachable they are by digital media ;-)

Besides, it's quite fascinating what information and pictures will turn up around the globe when one asks, often more than "at home". Often, the competition had the better documentation than the competitors...

according to free pistol wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_metre_pistol) moritz minder used a TsKIB SOO MTs55 60° during the olympics of 1978

madmull wrote:according to free pistol wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_metre_pistol) moritz minder used a TsKIB SOO MTs55 60° during the olympics of 1978

I am the main writer of the article.

Wish I have a scanner, as I have the 1978 World Championship commemoration book with a picture of him competing, wearing a track suit!
It is definitely a MTs, and the only logical MTs is the 55. The MTs all have the distinctive trigger guard that is easily identifiable and differentiate from a Toz or Isch.

madmull wrote:according to free pistol wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_metre_pistol) moritz minder used a TsKIB SOO MTs55 60° during the olympics of 1978

The German Free Pistol book that everyone uses list the champions and their pistols, but there are obvious quite a few errors. It is not unusual that the information of one session of the book actually conflicts another session. For example, if you look at my article, you can see that I list the Sauveur as the 1908 Olympic Champion, as opposed to a possible Buechel Tell in the book. The reason is simple. The Tell was not made until 1910 and not used in competition until 1911.

Since it is well known that the Ashbroek brothers use their country's Sauveur, which was always the HS-6, it was unlikely that Paul would suddenly switch to something else for the 1908 Olympics. Granted he could have use the Buechel Stecherspanner that won the 1908 championship, but since the Stecherspanner does not have a set lever, but rather a set trigger, it is unlikely he would jump ship.
The interesting thing that support my thinking is that he used the Tell starting 1911. BUt as soon as Sauveur made a set trigger (HS-record), he switched back to Sauveur and won the 1914 championship.

In the book you can still see him competing or posing in the 1920s. The pistol is unmistakably a HS-record. Target Pistol shooters seldom if ever change their pistols (even now), unless there is a major technological change that will give the shooter a major performance enhancement. Hence people still use the Toz-35, and people still use the LP10 (not LP10E) and the Morini CM182E after all these years. You don't see everyone switch to Walther LP400 because even though it is new, there is no significant advantage. The only thing I can imagine is new people purchase LP10E, but most competitors who have been around would still stick with their LP10. I would not blame them because their IS a difference in terms of the grip between the LP10 and LP10E. You obviously cannot switch your LP10 grip with a new LP10E. If you were comfortable with your grip for the last 10 years, why change?

Nice reply, but in answer to the question 'why change' the answer in this day and age is often money and sponsorship.

Rob.