Page 1 of 1
BB pistol as practice too for standard pistol?
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:41 am
by Dev
Imagine that you can't lay your hands on a standard pistol due to a ban on imports and a strict licensing policy.
But you have a .177, blowback airpistol...would using it help getting the timing and alignment for standard pistol? I would be using it at about seven meters. Don't ask about the trigger pull it must be about 8 or more pounds ;-).
Regards,
Dev
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:29 am
by RobStubbs
I'd suggest an air pistol with at least a good trigger would be far more useful. Like for example a Steyr lp50 or old lp5. That's what us folks in the UK use - although to be fair you'll never replicate the recoil.
Rob.
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:57 am
by rmca
Yes it will. It´s better that no training at all.
Pay especial attention to the lift part, especially in the 20 and 10 seconds part. Align the sights while your holding at 45 degrees, and lift. They should stay aligned once you're in the fire position.
As Rob said, you'll never replicate the recoil, so especially for ten seconds, I would try to use almost all of the time available. Do a small pause between shots before you start to align the sights again, as you would need if dealing with recoil.
Hope this helps
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:48 am
by RobStubbs
rmca wrote:Yes it will. It´s better that no training at all.
Pay especial attention to the lift part, especially in the 20 and 10 seconds part. Align the sights while your holding at 45 degrees, and lift. They should stay aligned once you're in the fire position.
Actually aligning the sights whilst at 45 degrees will not be correct when on aim. The sights should be checked for alignment when you do the dummy raise just before you lower into the ready position. Once the arm has been lowered dont look at the sights again until you come onto the target.
Rob.
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:15 am
by rmca
RobStubbs wrote: The sights should be checked for alignment when you do the dummy raise just before you lower into the ready position. Once the arm has been lowered dont look at the sights again until you come onto the target.
I agree with the first sentence, but not with the second.
If you're a seasoned shooter then you can lower your sights to the ready position and know that they will raise aligned again.
But if you are not, then check the alignment at the fire position, then drop to the ready position and check them again. This will insure that when you raise again the sights will be almost align.
Hope this helps
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:35 pm
by RobStubbs
rmca wrote:
I agree with the first sentence, but not with the second.
If you're a seasoned shooter then you can lower your sights to the ready position and know that they will raise aligned again.
But if you are not, then check the alignment at the fire position, then drop to the ready position and check them again. This will insure that when you raise again the sights will be almost align.
Hope this helps
I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Your sights will not be aligned at both the ready position and on aim so there's no point looking.
Rob.
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:32 pm
by Spencer
RobStubbs wrote:rmca wrote:
I agree with the first sentence, but not with the second.
If you're a seasoned shooter then you can lower your sights to the ready position and know that they will raise aligned again.
But if you are not, then check the alignment at the fire position, then drop to the ready position and check them again. This will insure that when you raise again the sights will be almost align.
Hope this helps
I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Your sights will not be aligned at both the ready position and on aim so there's no point looking.
Rob.
Unless you have an 'odd' body/arm conformation.
For most of us, your sights will not be aligned at both the ready and firing positions.
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:33 pm
by rmca
Hum... That's puzzling...
Maybe I do have an "odd" arm configuration, I mean, the sights are not perfectly aligned at the ready position, but the front sight is well within the rear notch, just a bit higher.
Out of curiosity, what relationship do you have on yours sights at the ready position, Rob and Spencer.
Cheers
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:14 pm
by j-team
Your front sight should be lower (out of veiw) when in the ready position. If you can see your front sight while in the ready position, you are unlocking the wrist and lifting the muzzle as you lower the pistol.
If you do it properly as Rob and Spencer have stated, you will not see the front sight when you lower the pistol. This is because of the difference between your shoulder joint (where your arm pivots from) and your eye. When on aim your eye will looking be looking 100mm or so above your arm, when you lower to the ready position, you are virtually looking along the top of your arm.
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:13 am
by Spencer
rmca wrote:...Out of curiosity, what relationship do you have on yours sights at the ready position, Rob and Spencer.
Cheers
Don't know (or care) - I have not looked at the pistol in the READY position for many years (decades?).
Eye focussed at the front sight before I lower the pistol, and stay looking at that location until the pistol is raised back to it.
It's not an original procedure, but watch the ISSF 25m videos and see how many Finalists do it that way - not all of them, but lots.
I cannot 'duel' 290+ any more (ah! the good old days), but for an old bloke with smashed up hands and trigger finger, don't do too bad on a good day
Spencer
Wealth of information
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:40 am
by Dev
Two years ago when I decided to compete in Standard Pistol, a friend told me that the sights should be aligned at the ready position.
I tried this but it makes my eyes go crazy, due to progressive glasses and all.
Then I read here about aligning the sights after the lift while keeping the head in the same position. I.E...keeping your eyes on the target and letting the sights climb to the correct sight picture.
This seems more workable for me as I get tense waiting for the green light and shoot so fast in the ten seconds series that I end up doing the cowboy thing of beginning the trigger squeeze as the pistol comes down from the recoil.
A few days ago I had the wife time me as I aligned and shot five quick shots with my BB Pistol (Crosman 1911 GI). She told me that I did it in five seconds.
What I am trying to do is calm my mind and use 8 seconds to shoot the five shots.
We shall be having a two day coaching camp soon, I plan to try out your tips then.
Thank you for being so generous with your time.
Regards,
Dev
Re: Wealth of information
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:23 am
by RobStubbs
Dev wrote:Two years ago when I decided to compete in Standard Pistol, a friend told me that the sights should be aligned at the ready position.
I tried this but it makes my eyes go crazy, due to progressive glasses and all.
Then I read here about aligning the sights after the lift while keeping the head in the same position. I.E...keeping your eyes on the target and letting the sights climb to the correct sight picture.
This seems more workable for me as I get tense waiting for the green light and shoot so fast in the ten seconds series that I end up doing the cowboy thing of beginning the trigger squeeze as the pistol comes down from the recoil.
A few days ago I had the wife time me as I aligned and shot five quick shots with my BB Pistol (Crosman 1911 GI). She told me that I did it in five seconds.
What I am trying to do is calm my mind and use 8 seconds to shoot the five shots.
We shall be having a two day coaching camp soon, I plan to try out your tips then.
Thank you for being so generous with your time.
Regards,
Dev
If you think about it your eye, shoulder and hand make a triangle, and that triangle looks very different in the ready position than it does when on aim. So it makes sense that the orientation of the sights will look different. I can't remember exactly what my sights look like as I haven't shot rapid or standard for some time but I know if I peek at the ready, they are not aligned.
With regards the timing, you find that what sets it up is how long you take on the first shot. So for the 10 second string I won't let the shot go for between 3 and 4 seconds, the others should then follow just over a second apart (if I do it properly). Unfortunately I have shot so little standard pistol properly, i.e. 22LR, that I rarely used to get all the 10s strings right, and would normally rattle the shots off too early and too quickly :(
Rob.
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:04 am
by rmca
I'll have to pay attention to my wrist next time...
Thank you for pointing it out. I'll correct it.
Cheers
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:31 pm
by jliston48
Spencer wrote:I cannot 'duel' 290+ any more (ah! the good old days), but for an old bloke with smashed up hands and trigger finger, don't do too bad on a good day
...and the targets were much bigger then! Ahh, the good old days, indeed!
As for sight alignments for rapid fire stages (Standard, Rapid & Centre/Sport), align the sights in the aiming area when sighting, lower the arm and as you do, follow the sights down to a point on the ground about 5 metres in front of the target then remain there as the arm lowers to 45 degrees. As you lift the pistol, pick up on the sight alignment at that point about 5m in front of the target and follow the sights into the aiming area, aligning as you go and squeezing the trigger. Hey presto! Perfect shot!