Shooting jacket.

[conradin]

Since I don't plan to be a competitor and not wanting to spend hundreds of dollars to buy an outfit for learning rifle (standing only), I wonder if it is OK to use a 1970 style RACING motorcycle jacket, by Dainese, AGV, or Kurt Thune? The ones that I have look very similar to shooting jacket. Good padding, good flexibility, good support. Notice that this has to be a 1970s to early 1980 jacket; motorcycle racing jackets are very different from mid 1980s on (leather, synthetic, multiple paddings which does not fit shooting), and before early 1970s (pure black cafe style).

A discussion was of this question was in the below thread without any conclusion: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?p=96536

PS. Boots are much cheaper, used, so it is not an issue, and I am not concerned about pants, since if the jacket passes, the pants will also pass.

[C. Perkins]

Since you are not planning on being a competitor which also means abiding by the rules for a jacket(zipper closure), then by all means, try it out and see if it works for you.

In my honest opinion it will not provide the support you need as to what a regulation shooting coat that is designed for support will give you.

Unless by some means it is smaller than what really fits you and gives support to needed areas of your stature.

I purchased mine from CSS for under a hundy, beginner coat but works for my prone shooting needs.(would also work for standing, but not going to hold up a 10 lbs rifle :)

Clarence

[conradin]

In my honest opinion it will not provide the support you need as to what a regulation shooting coat that is designed for support will give you.

Unless by some means it is smaller than what really fits you and gives support to needed areas of your stature.

Clarence

Thank you for the input Clarence. Ironically the racing outfits were purchased from Italy during my racing days as a rookie, before I was upgraded to the expert class by the AMA, AFM, whatever alphabet soup the USA has, then I indulged myself with a $3k state of the art suit.

I had two identical 1970s Dainese outfits, one is smaller than the other. The larger one I can put chest pad which is really a piece of thick leather in the jacket and the pants I put soccer shin guards, jock strap, all of which were "late 1970s and 1980s" things racers learned to do to protect themselves for lack of safer clothing accessories. Nowadays they are integrated into the racing suit, plus a neck protector and back protector, Kevlar on all joints, and is now a one piece item, as opposed to a jacket and a pair of pants zipped up to form a unit.

The other one, the smaller one, has no space for ANYTHING. In order to wear it I have to be naked, period. No space for even underwear. It fits skin tight. Better support actually. Very similar the way you wear a 1960s GP racing jacket, skin tight and naked. Naturally, NO "protection" whatsoever.

I worn both for different occasions depending on the situation. I confined them to the old closet once I upgraded to that $3k suit when I was issued the expert license. I do wear the looser one once in a while, whenever I feel "retro".

I will heed your advice and see how it feels when I fit inside my smaller jacket. Pants are not a big deal right now.

[Tim S]

Normally a shooting jacket has enough room underneath for underwear.

Most rifle shooters will wear a sweatshirt, or knitted cardigan, although thinner breathable synthetics seem to be the choice for some.

If the material is heavy enough to provide any support (particularly when shooting a heavy rifle standing), then it would be uncomfortable to wear without underwear. For standing it is reckoned that you want some support for your lower back.

[davidjohngoode]

I don't think your old motorcycle jacket will provide the sort of support you need.

A canvas shooting jacket won't cost too much. You'd definitely need to wear some sort of long-sleeved shirt under it, though: they are not good on bare skin!

[corning]

Since you will not be competing, you have a wider range of jacket options. You should consider non-ISU/ISSF equipment for your needs. I seem to recall that you indicated you were left handed? It may be a little tougher to find, but used jackets for USA NRA competition can be readily found, and will provide much more support than the motorcycle jacket. Even new, the US NRA jacket will be far less expensive than an ISU/ISSF type. As mentioned, the motorcycle jacket will not provide the support you want. A shooting jacket will provide far more support, and provide you more satisfaction shooting.

John

[bluetentacle]

If your purpose for learning rifle itself defense, as you previously stated, then you should learn to shoot in everyday clothes, in stances that allow you to move quickly. You wouldn't need a jacket of any sort as you wouldn't be doing the standing position of the Olympic style. Competitive positional shooting is highly ritualised and bear little resemblance to practical shooting, and the standing position is the most ritualised and least practical of them all.

Attending a "tactical" carbine class would be a much better idea for your stated purpose.

[Pat McCoy]

conradin:

If you are not interested in competing, why go to the expense and trouble of jacket, pants, and shooting boots?

If you are shooting for self-fulfilment, pleasure, you can do so in street clothes, as you are only competing with yourself.

You've mentioned a disability, and it may be that you need the clothing for artificial support, but you may also find other devices tom assist you. It may be worth your while to contact Bob Foth, the National Paralympic Coach, (Bob.Foth@usashooting.org) to discuss your physical problem and see what other assistive devices may be useful to you.

I quit using any equipment other than a glove several years ago. Of course I'm not anywhere near competitive on a mid to high level basis at age 67 with poor eyes, so just shoot for my own enjoyment.

[conradin]

Thank you for your suggestions of not needing to spend any money on jackets. The reason why I brought it up is that when I find the coach, or even practicing at home, I was told that a jacket is helpful and also protective, especially for the backbone, when it comes to recoil. Hence I only mention about any suitable jacket, such as motorcycle ones. In real life situation, I will most likely wear a motorcycle ones to go to my club's range to "plink" or practice; and for self defense, street clothes. I saw the ISSF approved clothes, as a set, is extremely expensive, and I do not see the justification of that. I shall leave that decision to the coach whom I will find. I am not qualified to make that decision, and you guys have more experience than I do, so I can have some expectation of what the possible advice is.

[conradin]

After much thought and experiment, it seems that I am better off getting a proper shooting jacket. A standard one obviously. Since I will be shooting in standing position, I don't think I will be too concerned about pants and boots, besides I usually wear boots anyway.

I don't think I can afford to buy a customized one, nor I think it is necessary to be perfect fit, since I won't be shooting in kneeing or in prone.

The main reason why I need a shooting jacket is the difficulty in stabilizing my elbow. I can use a shooting pad for the butt plate, but I cannot practice enough to make sure I am 100% at the same spot where my elbow should be. A shooting jacket, will allow me to put my elbow not just in a constant place, but easy to memorize. For long terms, I would be able to shoot without any jacket.

Anschutz, Kurt Thune, and other brands look expensive even if I only ordered standard size. Kurt Thune does not even offer standard sizing.

I am now looking at this Gehmann one from CC:

http://www.champchoice.com/prod-GEH_COA ... -2033.aspx

My question is, due to my medication and illness, my weight fluctuate a LOT. I can weigh anywhere from 155-175 within a week or two, as I have to constantly adjust my medication every month or two months. The changes mostly, as expected, is around the waist. The standard size will not fit my waist, but if I purchase one that fit my waist, I will ended up having a huge jacket.

It is not unusual for me to wear a pair of mid waist jeans one day and cannot fit in, and then a month later even with a belt the jeans will be too large. It is the main reason that I rely on suspenders when it comes to formal clothing.

Gehmann does not provide exactly what it means when stating a size, so I use a European racing motorcycle jacket as a guide (Alpine stars):

I supposedly will fit size 42 because I fit everything EXCEPT the waist part (88-92), my waist can go anywhere between 95-110.

42 C102-106 W88-92 H103-107

At size 44, Every measurement will be too big, since my chest is always at 102. but the waist is still a bit small:

44 C106-110 W92-96 H107-111

My main concern is probably want to make sure that the butt plate is placed correctly, as does my elbow be placed securely somewhere around my waist and rib cage (3rd button). The latter might be a problem. Even if I custom order for a larger waist, that means half of the time the jacket will be too small for my waist. This is frustrating.

I shoot leftie, so the chance of me finding a second hand one is slim.

Any advice, especially concerning my waist? I also read that shooting jacket is adjustable, but I do not know what exactly it means and how much you can adjust.

Exercising or dieting will not solve my waist problem, it is a pure medication side effect. Not taking medication is not an option.

Damn I wonder how women have to deal with this. j/k.

If there is another brand with more "flexibility" without customization, please give me suggestions. My budget is limited and I don't really want to spend more than $300 unless I absolutely have to.

[dc.fireman]

Conradin - that is the same jacket I use for prone (which is all I shoot). It is adjustable, in that you can change the placement of the buttons to adjust for your varying dimension. If you are shooting to ISSF rules, you will probably need to be concerned with the amount of overlap. Because you can change the buttons, you will need to be concerned with getting the placement correct each time, so as not to make the jacket look like a piece of Swiss cheese from changing the buttons frequently.

If you telephone CC, ask them if they have any used ones - they did have them for awhile, and some were left-handed. You and I wear the same size: 42 (in US size = 52 in European sizing), so do not be surprised if you receive the jacket and it indicates a size 52. I believe that when new, they were $190, used they were around $140, possibly less.

It is a heavy durable coat, and well worth the $$.



Good Luck!

[Pat McCoy]

Or, since you are not going to competitions, you may be able to use one jacket with two sets of buttons. One for heavy days, and one for skinny days (oh how I'd like to see those sometime). Since you are not shooting prone, you don't have to worry about lying on the buttons.

[JasonM]

If he's not shooting in ISSF competitions, can't he use one of the shooting jackets with adjustable straps with clips? That would be much easier and quicker to adjust to allow for weight fluctuation.