TargetTalk

I find it very strange that whenever I compete, my match scores are always much much lower than my scores at home. I set up my home exactly according to ISSF standard (AP 10M, with the right length and height of the target), good lighting. I don't have a trolley, so I put wooden blocks where the trolley wheels would be to simulate how they get in the way.

Inevitably my scores ended up MUCH lower than my practice. The last one I just did I have close to .200 difference.

I don't have much jitters, nor time is a factor. But somehow I failed to produce not just the range of my best practice scores, but not even the scores I did at home when I shoot totally casual (just grab the pistol. quickly directly aim, and shoot without doing any proper procedure like breathing fine adjustment, etc).

I am at a lost. Granted the last few tournaments there are acts of God in play, such as two consecutive O ring failures just before the sighting period despite having things check carefully the night before. But the last one there is no "excuses". Sure I have my usual medicinal side-effect induced shaking hand condition a bit worse than usual, but I do not consider that too much of a factor, .200 is too much.

I begin to wonder if it is the match time. I always practice at night around 10pm, prior to go to sleep. No tournament that I have been to start later than 11am, and usually at 9am. If this is the case, I want to know why; especially from people who had similar experience and has since have it fixed.

Conradin wrote:

"I failed to produce not just the range of my best practice scores, but not even the scores I did at home when I shoot totally casual (just grab the pistol. quickly directly aim, and shoot"


This is exactly what you need to do in a match! Don't change things, and "try harder" in a match. because that is not how you have trained to shoot.

Much of this difference in your thought and physical process comes from a difference in your "mental set". You must go into matches with the same attitude of trying to "just shoot" rather than try to "win" or "improve". BOOKS have bee written about this.

Maybe shoot a practice match at 9:00 AM. That will take one variable out of your quandary. I know I shoot best in the late afternoon.

Could be your morning coffee. Could be playing "pocket pool" during the match. Could be the "thrill of victory or the agony of defeat."

A shot or two or booze will reduce essential tremor. So will putting an ice pack on your arm.

Telling yourself, "Don't screw up, you putz!", doesn't work.

Those are excellent tips Rover. Too bad that 'tips' in a forum are useless... well, so some have said. I have shifted to practicing at home at random times for the past few months, just after waking or late at night or any time between, whenever there's time. I remembered hearing long ago about a study in which students hitting the books and doing practice tests at 'match' time scored better test results than those who studied late into the night. Something about brain chemistry cycles, with learning best done in Tue same hormonal conditions as in putting that learning to work.

Booze can get you kicked out of a match, it's technically against the ISSF rules. But so far there seems no rule against ice packs, and the more recent study on cooling's reduction of tremor for AP shooting seemed to point to it being a really good idea to cool from elbow to wrist about every 30 minutes.

Gerard wrote:I remembered hearing long ago about a study in which students hitting the books and doing practice tests at 'match' time scored better test results than those who studied late into the night. Something about brain chemistry cycles, with learning best done in Tue same hormonal conditions as in putting that learning to work.

Sounds logical, I think maybe I should see if I switch my practice time to 11am will help.

What goals do you set yourself in training and in matches.

How much training do you do to shoot matches (rather than training to shoot shots).

How many days before an important match do you start mentally preparing for it.

Apart from in matches, how often do you shoot alongside others.

(Just a few random thoughts)

I think a lot of us try too hard in a match. An almost imperceptible harder grip on the gun, can cause you to push shots two rings further out than they would be, if you relaxed and shot.

Elevated blood pressure, and heart rate due to excitment....same problem

Try this, eat at least two hours before you shoot a match, and lay off the carbs. Try meat, cheese, salad, jerky, etc. The older you are, the more this will help your shooting.

The reason is almost totally psychological in your mind. David lists some good pointers and training tips.

The key thing is that most shooters don't train matches and then they treat matches as different to training, which defeats the objectives of training.

So ask yourself how much mental preparation and training you do ? Do you visualise being in a match whilst training, do you do everything identically ? Do you also shoot the match exactly as you train ?

If any one of the above is different then you will almost certainly under perform in the matches.

When you get to a match and it feels just like a good training session, then you'll start performing to your best; get it totally right and your match scores will beat your training scores.

Rob.

All of the above plus one thing

Shoot as many matches as you can. It gets easier with time, and when you stand at a match with the same attitude you do in training, then your scores will rise.

Hope this helps

conradin wrote:I find it very strange that whenever I compete, my match scores are always much much lower than my scores at home. I set up my home exactly according to ISSF standard (AP 10M, with the right length and height of the target), good lighting. I don't have a trolley, so I put wooden blocks where the trolley wheels would be to simulate how they get in the way.

Inevitably my scores ended up MUCH lower than my practice. The last one I just did I have close to .200 difference.

I don't have much jitters, nor time is a factor. But somehow I failed to produce not just the range of my best practice scores, but not even the scores I did at home when I shoot totally casual (just grab the pistol. quickly directly aim, and shoot without doing any proper procedure like breathing fine adjustment, etc).

I am at a lost. Granted the last few tournaments there are acts of God in play, such as two consecutive O ring failures just before the sighting period despite having things check carefully the night before. But the last one there is no "excuses". Sure I have my usual medicinal side-effect induced shaking hand condition a bit worse than usual, but I do not consider that too much of a factor, .200 is too much.

I begin to wonder if it is the match time. I always practice at night around 10pm, prior to go to sleep. No tournament that I have been to start later than 11am, and usually at 9am. If this is the case, I want to know why; especially from people who had similar experience and has since have it fixed.

IMO, it's just the increased stress of an actual match. Try hypnosis. I know competitors in other sports who have used the approach and it's worked. Make sure you use a trained/certified hypnotist.

Brian Lafferty wrote:IMO, it's just the increased stress of an actual match. Try hypnosis. I know competitors in other sports who have used the approach and it's worked. Make sure you use a trained/certified hypnotist.

It is stress, but you dont need hypnosis to overcome it. Stress is self induced i.e. you create it yourself in response to a situation, event or feeling. The solution is to make the match less stress inducing and more familiar such that it becomes a comfortable environment rather than one to induce stress. That just requires proper training, both mental and technical.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote:

Brian Lafferty wrote:IMO, it's just the increased stress of an actual match. Try hypnosis. I know competitors in other sports who have used the approach and it's worked. Make sure you use a trained/certified hypnotist.

It is stress, but you dont need hypnosis to overcome it. Stress is self induced i.e. you create it yourself in response to a situation, event or feeling. The solution is to make the match less stress inducing and more familiar such that it becomes a comfortable environment rather than one to induce stress. That just requires proper training, both mental and technical.

I've been using Facebook too much Rob; I tried looking for the "Like" button.

RobStubbs wrote:

Brian Lafferty wrote:IMO, it's just the increased stress of an actual match. Try hypnosis. I know competitors in other sports who have used the approach and it's worked. Make sure you use a trained/certified hypnotist.

It is stress, but you dont need hypnosis to overcome it. Stress is self induced i.e. you create it yourself in response to a situation, event or feeling. The solution is to make the match less stress inducing and more familiar such that it becomes a comfortable environment rather than one to induce stress. That just requires proper training, both mental and technical.

Rob.

If you can do that on your own, great. If not, there are top athletes who have successfully used hypnosis. Another approach that is used is neuro entrainment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment

http://www.transparentcorp.com/products/np/index.php

Brian

Forgive me if you think my comments harsh, but this thread and way too many others just like it have become an internet reality show. The public gnashing of teeth and begging for help on the same tired old subject elicits the same responses from the same people. After you have read all the sometimes conflicting opinions, are you in any better position to help yourself? I say "No." You have more data to add to your confusion.

I'll repeat the steps from a few weeks ago that I think the O.P. needs to take:

1. Find a mentor - it doesn't matter whether you call him/her coach, instructor, guru, sensei or whatever.
2. Stick to that person like a limpet.
3. Listen to everything he/she says uncritically.
4. Do everything he/she instructs you to do.
5. Ignore ALL other opinions.
6. When your mentor says you're ready to consider other techniques feel free to search, although at this point you will feel sufficiently comfortable with your skills that you will feel no need to do so

And I would add to #5 - Resist the temptation to seek other opinions.

william wrote:Forgive me if you think my comments harsh, but this thread and way too many others just like it have become an internet reality show. The public gnashing of teeth and begging for help on the same tired old subject elicits the same responses from the same people. After you have read all the sometimes conflicting opinions, are you in any better position to help yourself? I say "No." You have more data to add to your confusion.

I'll repeat the steps from a few weeks ago that I think the O.P. needs to take:

1. Find a mentor - it doesn't matter whether you call him/her coach, instructor, guru, sensei or whatever.
2. Stick to that person like a limpet.
3. Listen to everything he/she says uncritically.
4. Do everything he/she instructs you to do.
5. Ignore ALL other opinions.
6. When your mentor says you're ready to consider other techniques feel free to search, although at this point you will feel sufficiently comfortable with your skills that you will feel no need to do so

And I would add to #5 - Resist the temptation to seek other opinions.

Great advice if you have the all knowing mentor. Any idea where one can be found? I think it's a good idea to keep an open eye on many different things when trying to excel in any sport. If you have a coach/mentor you can always discuss what you see/hear with them and get your mentor's take.
Brian

90% mental

The 2 main reasons people don't perform as well as they are capable of:

• Trying too hard
  Not having and following a shot process

Check out the link
Thinking and Winning by Lanny Bassham

Dave
Work hard in training and work easy in competition - Lanny Bassham

Great advice if you have the all knowing mentor.

He doesn't have to be all knowing. He only needs to know more than you. I found a mentor at my club when I showed up for my first postal league match. He was far from a pistol know it all - primarily a rifle shooter, many time state champion, who only took up serious pistol shooting in mid-life. Nonetheless, he took me under his wing and taught me nearly all I know or think I know about bullseye shooting. He was a cranky old man who died a while ago, and I'm grateful he took the time for me. Keep your eyes and ears open (and your mouth mostly shut); you will find yours.

william wrote:

Great advice if you have the all knowing mentor.

He doesn't have to be all knowing. He only needs to know more than you. I found a mentor at my club when I showed up for my first postal league match. He was far from a pistol know it all - primarily a rifle shooter, many time state champion, who only took up serious pistol shooting in mid-life. Nonetheless, he took me under his wing and taught me nearly all I know or think I know about bullseye shooting. He was a cranky old man who died a while ago, and I'm grateful he took the time for me. Keep your eyes and ears open (and your mouth mostly shut); you will find yours.

Keep my mouth shut? If I can't talk and ask questions it will be pretty difficult to meet people and find that mentor. ;)

One of the really nice things about the internet are some of the sources available for learning to shoot air pistol. Target Shooting Canada has a wealth of information as but one example. Patrick, who has run the site for years was, IIRC, just made national pistol coach in Canada. He's been quite accessible and answered many a question for me. With his new duties, I suspect he'll be less available and I hope his web site doesn't suffer too much.

Now. Everyone............. Breathe. :)

Good shooting,
Brian

You don't need a mentor, just someone who will administer "aversion therapy" while you're shooting.

This has proven very effective in breaking bad habits, such as smoking.

Just have your beloved stand behind you at a match. When you shoot any lower than a nine, she administers a sharp slap to the back of your head and hisses, "Schmuck!" in your ear.

Don't say it won't work until you try it. This advice is as good as any you'll get of the Net.