TargetTalk

Last weekend I had some time reading through the ISSF rule book 2013 version downloaded from their website. However, I can't understand the part on target/range installations for 50 m.

As far as I know, there are pistol and rifle events for 50 M, one event for pistol, i.e. 50 m FP and at least 3 events for rifle. On the rule book, page 209, section 6.4.6.1, it prints,

6.4.6.1 Height of Target Centers
Target centers must be within the following heights when measured from the level of the firing point floor:
Range Standard Height Variation Allowable
300m 3.00 m +/- 4.00 m
50m 0.75 m +/- 0.50 m
25m 1.40 m + 0.10 m / - 0.20 m
10m 1.40 m +/- 0.05 m
50m Running Target 1.40 m +/- 0.20 m
10m Running Target 1.40 m +/- 0.05 m

All target centers within a group of targets or range must have the
same height (1 cm).

I believe something must be worng for 0.75 m is app. 30 inches. This figures will be acceptable for 50 m prone/kneel rifle events and they have missed to print the height for 50 m free pistol and 50 m rifle Stand shooting. I remember it should be 1.4 m (same as 25 m pistol events).

Can anyone verify if I am wrong and what should be the correct heights.

As the highest administrative body for the shooting sports, I am quite surprised that the technical committee can miss out such kind of information.

Eddie Tsoi wrote: I believe something must be worng for 0.75 m is app. 30 inches. This figures will be acceptable for 50 m prone/kneel rifle events and they have missed to print the height for 50 m free pistol and 50 m rifle Stand shooting. I remember it should be 1.4 m (same as 25 m pistol events).

Can anyone verify if I am wrong and what should be the correct heights.

As the highest administrative body for the shooting sports, I am quite surprised that the technical committee can miss out such kind of information.

You are wrong, the rule book is correct. They have not missed anything out.

Hi David, in such case, do you mean that for all 50 m events, be it FR, rifle 3 positions, they will all be shooting at a target center of .75 m high from ground level.

Thanks for enlighten me because in our range, they are of different heights for FP and prone rifle.

Also one thing I am curious on that part, it mentions that the height variation for 50 m allowable is +/- 0.50 m. In such case, a target can stand as tall as 1.25 m or as low as 0.25 m and they are all qualified as ISSF standard. I cannot imagine a FP shooter to shoot at that low.

Eddie Tsoi wrote:Hi David, in such case, do you mean that for all 50 m events, be it FR, rifle 3 positions, they will all be shooting at a target center of .75 m high from ground level.

Yes, +/- the .5m tolerance. Remember that it's not above ground level, it's above the level of the firing point floor. That might be the same if the range is perfectly flat, but that would be very unusual.

Eddie Tsoi wrote:Thanks for enlighten me because in our range, they are of different heights for FP and prone rifle.

That's fine provided they are not mixed in with each other and that all are at .75m +/-.5m

Eddie Tsoi wrote:Also one thing I am curious on that part, it mentions that the height variation for 50 m allowable is +/- 0.50 m. In such case, a target can stand as tall as 1.25 m or as low as 0.25 m and they are all qualified as ISSF standard. I cannot imagine a FP shooter to shoot at that low.

It wouldn't be ideal, but it would be legal under ISSF rules.

Dear David,

Thanks for providing me the information. Just one more question, when does this rule changes? I have asked some of my shooting pals who shot back in the 70's in Commonwealth Games and he said it was 1.40 m.

Eddie Tsoi wrote:Thanks for providing me the information. Just one more question, when does this rule changes? I have asked some of my shooting pals who shot back in the 70's in Commonwealth Games and he said it was 1.40 m.

I've just gone back to 2001 and it was .75m.

I'll go back a bit further later today but I can't remember it ever being that high. You would expect it to be lower than the 25m targets because of arm angle for the majority of shooters.

I really appreciate your effort in giving me the right information. I think I have been wrong on this since the first day I start shooting FP.

David Levene wrote:

Eddie Tsoi wrote: [..snip..] I cannot imagine a FP shooter to shoot at that low.

It wouldn't be ideal, but it would be legal under ISSF rules.

Why not?

Bone Idle wrote:

David Levene wrote:

Eddie Tsoi wrote: [..snip..] I cannot imagine a FP shooter to shoot at that low.

It wouldn't be ideal, but it would be legal under ISSF rules.

Why not?

Because most range operators will try to keep their targets at the quoted nominal height without using the permitted tolerances.

If you are used to shooting on a range with the targets at one extreme of the tolerances and then go to a range where the targets are at the other extreme then you are likely to feel extremely uncomfortable.

David Levene wrote:

Eddie Tsoi wrote:Thanks for providing me the information. Just one more question, when does this rule changes? I have asked some of my shooting pals who shot back in the 70's in Commonwealth Games and he said it was 1.40 m.

I've just gone back to 2001 and it was .75m.

Just checked back to 1993. No change I'm afraid.

David Levene wrote:If you are used to shooting on a range with the targets at one extreme of the tolerances and then go to a range where the targets are at the other extreme then you are likely to feel extremely uncomfortable.

So true, David, so my advice to a seriously competitive shooter is:

During training sessions, experience targets at both height extremes - and over a range of height settings between.

In many sports, many competitors at unfamiliar venues complain about the conditions even if the conditions fit within the rules. This is because the conditions are unfamiliar to them. (eg. soccer grounds can range in size from 90 x 50 metres to 110 x 68 metres - an increase in area of 66%!).

You don't have to do this often but include it occasionally in the training plan just enough to be comfortable with the differences. That way, you will be at ease with the situation under competitive conditions while other competitors are playing with their own emotions and self-doubts about the unfamiliar conditions - and ensure that your performance is the best you can possibly give and that may well be the winning edge. Also, it will give you knowledge about any changes in stance, position , grip and sight settings under the changed conditions. Theoretically there may be a slight change to the point of impact - but this change is negligible (I have no doubt that some shooters will find changes necessary, though).

This leads to a general point about training - train under as many conditions of weather, temperature, lighting and range set-ups and tolerances as you can to build confidence that you can perform/compete successfully under all conditions. If you have back-up equipment, use that in training too. It's all about preparation and confidence.

It seems to me that the .75m +/-.50m must be a typo that has never been corrected. At .25m, the bottom of your target is below ground level. How can that be! I guess it is possible if you are shooting on a downhill range, but not on a flat range.

ricchap wrote:It seems to me that the .75m +/-.50m must be a typo that has never been corrected. At .25m, the bottom of your target is below ground level. How can that be! I guess it is possible if you are shooting on a downhill range, but not on a flat range.

It is possible if the land slopes downwards away from the firing point to the target line so you walk downhill to the targets.

Similarly (as on my home range), I walk uphill to the targets and the target in the correct position, at 75cm above the firing point, actually sits with its bottom edge on the ground.

Definitely not a typo - this rule has been around for over 30 years to my memory.