TargetTalk

Since the market forum is usually filled with high end AR, my question will require help from here.

I recently have bought a Haemmerli AR20 for the sake of learning basic rifle. I have no desire to progress beyond knowing how to hold, handle it safely, and shoot good enough for self defense/home invasion. We have an old military bolt action rifle for home defense.

As far as I know this is the lowest priced match AR that is currently in production. Another main reason why I bought it is that I shoot left handed. I saw other high grade ones like FWB700 and 800 hold value pretty well, so I wonder if this Haemmerli AR20 can also hold value for the next 4 months or so. ie. how much value it retains after half a year.

If it holds value well I can sell it, if it does not hold value, then I shall keep it, or if the value plummet quickly, then I will also sell it to recover as much as possible.

I do not plan to buy any rifle in the future.

Conradin,

I’m not sure what your question is but I think you want to know what the resale value of a Haemmerli AR20 is?

Well I would be surprised if anyone would pay more than 75 % of what a new one would cost. I would not pay more than 50% of new unless I know something special about the rifle.

Why would you buy an expensive match gun just to learn basic self defense? Why not learn on the rifle that you actually plan to use?

caveman wrote:Conradin,

I’m not sure what your question is but I think you want to know what the resale value of a Haemmerli AR20 is?

Well I would be surprised if anyone would pay more than 75 % of what a new one would cost. I would not pay more than 50% of new unless I know something special about the rifle.

So in your opinion low cost match rifle does not hold up value? If I paid $900 I would be lucky to get $450 back in half a year?

bluetentacle wrote:Why would you buy an expensive match gun just to learn basic self defense? Why not learn on the rifle that you actually plan to use?

The AR20 is the cheapest match rifle, and I am a leftie, so the used market does not help. The home rifle uses expensive ammo, $2 for a round at the least. If you include range fee, gas, time, etc. Cost will pile up very quickly.
Plus you have to shoot on the rifle range, which is 50 yards, not a realistic distance for home defense.

Using an AR means $10 for a can of 500 pellets shooting inside one's garage within 10M, a much more realistic close encounter home defense situation.

Eventually I do have to use the real rifle to train, but I certainly do not need to spend boxes and boxes of ammo initially as I do not have an AR. Also, the home rifle is a rightie, so using the AR will help me with good holding posture.

It is a matter of depreciation of the AR vs the cost-effectiveness of the training using the home rifle.

Post deleted

conradin,

“So in your opinion low cost match rifle does not hold up value? If I paid $900 I would be lucky to get $450 back in half a year?”

No! IMO you could reasonably expect to recover $675 for your rifle, I probably wouldn’t pay more than $450 for it. Add that Haemmerli has a reputation for weak regulators and parts availability problems, I have seen clubs wholesaling them to upgrade their equipment. Also IMO entry level precision rifles are poor investments because if you spend very long in the sport you will soon have more money invested in training, other equipment, match fees, and travel. In other words the cost of a rifle is a small percentage of what the total cost of participating in precision shooting sports. As for self/home defense, this isn’t the place to discuss that (Sorry Tim, I was tempted too but really?).

conradin wrote: It is a matter of depreciation of the AR vs the cost-effectiveness of the training using the home rifle.

There are plenty of cheap air rifles and smallbore rifles that match the ergonomics of a battle rifle much more closely. Heard of Gammo, Ruger, etc?

And if you consider 50 yards too far for your needs, why use a rifle for home defense at all? The noise will make you deaf in enclosed areas and rifle calibers overpenetrate easily into neighboring properties. A handgun is much more suitable instrument. It is more ambidextrous than any rifle and happens to be your chosen shooting sport.

bluetentacle wrote:There are plenty of cheap air rifles and smallbore rifles that match the ergonomics of a battle rifle much more closely. Heard of Gammo, Ruger, etc?

And if you consider 50 yards too far for your needs, why use a rifle for home defense at all? The noise will make you deaf in enclosed areas and rifle calibers overpenetrate easily into neighboring properties. A handgun is much more suitable instrument. It is more ambidextrous than any rifle and happens to be your chosen shooting sport.

yeah What Blue Tentacle said.

Not trying to stretch this topic, since originally I just want to know the approximate depreciation rate of a low grade match rifle. The defense is actually involved one of us in the hallway of the common apartment complex, not inside the our own apartment. So when the home invaders made it through the lock gate, it is exactly around 7 to 10M. Even the bullet go through it will only hit concrete and not hurt anyone. The entire apartment complex residents already know what to do, and that is the plan.

Thank you for the answer about the depreciation value, sounds like I am better off keeping the air rifle. I hope this thread will be closed now as I got the answer.

Why not heed the words of wisdom of our beloved Vice President and respond to your problems with some shotgun blasts through the door.

Or do you think you know more than the man with the backing of the entire United States Government behind him.?

I pretty much done practicing with the AR. Misses loves the AR, so I have gifted to her last night. I think I can handle a rifle either as a leftie or a rightie. I just need to make sure I do not slouch, which is easier said than done. It is just now a matter of firing a real one, now that I think my posture in standing position is good enough; half a box of 303 will be more than enough. Surprisingly the SMLE is lighter than the Haemmerli AR20. Thank you for everyone's suggestion, including Rover's timely reminder that we should not live in Florida.

I'm going to regret this but...

How is practising with an ambidextrous recoilless .177cal airgun going to help with the operation of a RH bolt action .303? Beyond looking along the barrel, and pressing the trigger, ergonomics, sights, loading and recoil are totally different.

If you need more than 1/2 box of .303, it's not home defence, it's a war!

On a practical note, I was told many years ago to keep the thumbnail of your loading hand short. The SMLE's sidewall has a habit of trimming it for you when inserting chargers.

I have never touched a rifle before, hence picked this one (an AR), may as well learn what a diopter is, what a front sight is, where to aim, how to pull a trigger. I did learn how to securely hold the rifle in standing position, how to handle it properly (present, at ease), etc. So now it is just a matter of applying that to a .303. At least I know exactly where the butt end is going to go against which part of my body to deal with the recoil, as opposed to getting a black eye.
So the whole exercise is just for me to learn the most basic, both left handed (master eye) and right handed ("master hand"). It does not hurt to learn both.

Finally, *most* ranges here disallow any positions other than bench and at least 50 yards. So I have to travel the furthest to the range that allow standing or 3P or whatever. I can also set the target at 10m there if I like.

Anyway. the point is quite moot now, as the AR now belongs to my misses, I got what I needed, so we never "lost" any money. She is happy. Thank you for the input.

PS. the SMLE actually is broken right now and waiting in line for the gunsmith to work on it. Supposedly a 15 minute job, but the waiting list is like 3 months. The Bolt is screwed up. We are *still* waiting.