Recommend .38 Spl Wad Gun?

John C · Post by **John C** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:22 am

I'm getting the bug to pick up a .38 spl wadcutter pistol. I've never owned one, and want to try it out for the CF portion of my club's BE league (600 RF and 600 CF match).

Looking around, I see S&W 52's for $8-900, Clark longslide .38's for $1500-2000, and Hammerli 240's for $2000-5000. Are there any other choices I'm missing?

The S&W 52 seems like a well respected choice. Other shooters in my club have them, and like them. Parts seem readily available.

The Clark longslides look simply awesome. They're 1911s, so parts are not an issue.

The Hammerli seems to have parts availability issues, though Larry's Guns seems to have bought a stockpile of parts. Magazines seem to go for $165 plus.

Which one would you choose?

Thanks,

-John

gulliver62 · Post by **gulliver62** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:11 am

I have a 52 and like it a lot. It is a pleasure to shoot in sustained fire.
Some things to be aware of.

It is VERY finicky at 50yd. Mistakes seem magnified but good shots are right in there.
Parts are not so readily available, I just had to have some trigger work done and my smith had issues locating necessary parts
Magazines are expensive but no more so than the average Euro gun like a 208.

I enjoy playing with a number of CF guns and also have a 9mm 1911 and a couple of .32 and the 52 is still my favorite to shoot of them all.

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:03 am

I have a 52-1 and I love it. It is a pleasure to shoot and fits my hand as well as any stock grip I've ever held. That said, only some parts are available through Numrich:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacture ... -35293.htm

Some parts are the same as for other S&W's, but if you somehow damage the barrel, you have a lovely paperweight.

The 52-1 has an extractor that is basically a larger flat spring extending from the back of the slide. The Model 52-2 has a more conventional extractor which, I have read, is less prone to breakage. I have not had any trouble with mine yet but obtained an extractor from a Model 39 from Numrich which I believe is modifiable. A 52-2 would probably be a better choice if you can get it.

As far as magazines are concerned, they are all over Gunbroker for about $60 each.

Roger

aacjr · Post by **aacjr** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:28 pm

I have a 52-2 and find it a pleasure to shoot.

You will read that it is difficult to shoot, and maybe I am just not good enough to tell, but I find it easier than a 45 because of the lighter trigger and light weight.

I had to replace an extractor because the very tip of the original broke. The Numrich part went in fine and works well, but the lower inside edge needed to be chamferred to match the original.

This is really a case of shoot what's fun, so try a few options if ypur friends have them available and the buy the funnest.

Allan

aacjr · Post by **aacjr** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:32 pm

And I forgot to mention in my 1st post, a friend has a 52 with a worn out barrel. We have been looking for a new one (you can't use a used one as they have to be fitted) and he just talked to Clark and learned that they are in the final stages of engineering a replacement. I bet it won't be cheap, but apparently they will become available.

Allan

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:19 pm

aacjr wrote:And I forgot to mention in my 1st post, a friend has a 52 with a worn out barrel. We have been looking for a new one (you can't use a used one as they have to be fitted) and he just talked to Clark and learned that they are in the final stages of engineering a replacement. I bet it won't be cheap, but apparently they will become available.

If so, that is a relief. I don't want to stop enjoying mine, but every time I clean it I worry about taking a bit more off of its useful life.

BTW, how did you get the extractor off? Once in a long while, the slide will move back far enough to strip a fresh round leaving an empty case is still in the chamber, so I'm guessing that it is only a matter of time before I have to replace it. I know how it comes off in theory, but did you have to make a tool?

Roger

Peter B · Post by **Peter B** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:47 pm

Have a 52 and don't realy care for it, doesn't feel right in my hand, scope mounts are a problem.

Anyone try a 38 super, they shoot lead better than a 9 and their based on the 1911. Bullet weights go from 125 to 160.

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:42 pm

I have a S&W Model 52-1. Mount the dot right on the slide and load your cases flush with a good strong load. Never had a problem with Federal cases. When you give it up and start shooting a 45 your scores will increase immediately if you learned to shoot the 52 well! Once day I gave it up and never looked back; it is in my safe.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:35 pm

I've had both the Smith 52 and a 1911 with a Colt kit. Both great shooters.

That said, don't bother. Go right to a .45 and get a handle on it.

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:52 pm

I would pick up a 52-1 or -2.
Granted the 52 is not very forgiving, but niether is any gun to a point.
I picked up a new in box 52-2 and shot 200 rounds through it(wow, what an accurate pistol).Put it away and picked up a 52-1 used for a shooter.
Installed a BME frame mount with an 1" Ultradot.
My average .45 scores are about 845 after shooting for about 4 years.
My average 52 scores are about 835 after a couple months.
I just recently traded my 52-2 for a Premier grade Freedom Arms 454 Casull.
I just recently sold my .45
I am now only going to shoot my Marvel for the .22 and the 52-1 for centerfire.
No more 2700's for me.
The Marvel is accurate and great to shoot.
The 52 is accurate and great to shoot.
Once you figure out how to load the .38 full wadcutters(and I mean learn how to load them), you will have an accurate and alibi free pistol.

Just my honest opinion.
Clarence

John C · Post by **John C** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:23 pm

Thanks, gentlemen, for the replies.

Based on the feedback, I may lean toward a Clark. Although it's good to know that new 52 barrels may soon be available.

Thanks,

-John

Leon · Post by **Leon** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:03 am

Get a P240 - you won't be disappointed. The quality of manufacture is amazing.

You can also get a .22 top end so you can practice cheaply.

Parts situation is OK, and as for P240 availability, look to importing one from Germany - where 'as new' ( and I really mean as new ) sell for about $800 - $1000.

My P240s - mixture of .38s, .32s and .22s.... all obtained from Germany.

6string · Post by **6string** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:00 am

Hello,
One way to go with the replacement barrel on a 52 is to have a replacement barrel tube fitted to the existing breechblock. Interestingly, this was commonly done on 1911s that were converted from 38 super to 38 Spl. wadcutter.
A good way to go with importing a SIG P240 is through Exclusive Firearms in Naples, FL. Talk to Udo Hergenroeder. He has an office in Germany as well in the USA, so he can purchase from any dealer or individual and then import between the two countries. Reasonable fees. (No, I do not have any professional or personal association.)
On the downside, you are stuck with dealing with Larry Carter if you want domestically procured parts for the P240, as he has purchased most of the existing supplies.... :-(

PS: My choice for 38 wadcutter is a 1911, preferably Clark or, better yet, Giles.
Kart will make 38 spl barrels for 1911, 5 or 6", ramped or not, EZ fit or hard fit, all your choice. Pretty good prices too!
Best Regards,
Jim

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Hey Clarence,

I think you lucked out. I hear Hornady makes "zombie blaster" ammo for the .454.

C. Perkins · Post by **C. Perkins** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:02 pm

Rover;

In a 454 Casull, there is no need for "special ammo".
I have fired my share of them.

Clarence

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:16 pm

That's a relief! I'll send them your way along with some Democrats.

6string · Post by **6string** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:33 am

Hello again,
Regarding the original post, another advantage of the 38 spl wadcutter gun built on a 1911 is the wide choice of bullets. Because of the magazine design, you can load wadcutters that may have the little button nose, such as Lyman 358091. The SW 52 is strictly a flush loaded bullet proposition. I can't say about the P240.
Speaking of cast bullets, it seems the barrels encountered on 1911s are usually quite amenable to cast bullets, especially when cast a bit softer with alloys like 20:1 lead-tin. The SW 52s my friends have shot seem to prefer swaged bullets.
Going back to magazines, it is possible to make your own from 38 super mags. Metalform makes a nice one for under $20. The 52 and P240 mags are more difficult to find and much more expensive.
Of course, talking about casting my own bullets and making magazines may reveal my true cheapskate inclination...

Peter B · Post by **Peter B** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:33 am

38 special flush seated wad cutters will fit into a 38 super mag but you will need a different follower. Standard one allow the nose of the round to tip forward causing gams.

A 38 super shoots nice.

aacjr · Post by **aacjr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:40 am

Roger,

I am a woodworker, not a metalworker, so I had a local gunsmith change the extractor. Apparently it is a relatively simple process to drive out a retaining pin, mot lose the spring, radius the lower inside of the replacement to match the old and reverse the steps to reassemble. I just was not cofident that I would not mar the gun.

Al;lan

John C · Post by **John C** » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:55 pm

Peter B wrote:38 special flush seated wad cutters will fit into a 38 super mag but you will need a different follower. Standard one allow the nose of the round to tip forward causing gams.

A 38 super shoots nice.

Peter;

Is the new follower readily available? If so, where can I find one?

Thanks,

-John

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