Bullet Selecttion - Swaged vs Cast

TomJ · Post by **TomJ** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:13 am

I am relatively new to bullseye competition. I competed in 2700 matches last year shooting my Model 41 for all the events. I've purchased a Dave Salyer wadgun, Dillon 550, and in the process of buying components. Is there a difference between swaged and cast bullets as far as leading? I'm trying to decide between buying from Zero (swaged) and Magnus (cast) and would appreciate your comments. I'm looking at shooting a 200 gr. SWC for both shot and long line events. Thanks
Tom

Ernie Rodriguez · Post by **Ernie Rodriguez** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:31 am

Tom-if used at target velocities most lead bullets won't cause leading.I have used both brands and they are accurate. I might say the swaged bullets are SLIGHTLY more accurate possibly due to the tighter weight variations and possibly -being softer-faster obturation characteristics.I consider a 200gr/45 cal slug easier to obtain excellent accuracy at 50 yds probably because minor imperfections in the bullet have less effect on a heavier bullet over a lighter weight bullet.The H&G #68 shaped heads seem to produce a good compromise between reliable functioning and accuracy. You can't do better than a Dave Salyer built pistol. IMO....of course

GunRunner · Post by **GunRunner** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:34 am

The 200 swc from magnus is a excellet bullet, i shoot them at 50 yds with 4.1 gr of bullseye powder. 3.8 will work nicely at 25

bruce em · Post by **bruce em** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:39 pm

Swaged are top quality at 50 yard sif you load them correctly; not on Dillon dies

See Bullseye list article 32 and swaged...

regards

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:50 pm

It really depends on your gun, and loads. I use Zero swaged LHP 185g at the 50 yard line. I shoot the Valiant 160g cast wadcutters at the 25 yard line.
i have had no issues with leading. Dave Salyer says to avoid bullets with tin in them. Tin makes a very pretty bullet but it can cause leading.

bruce em · Post by **bruce em** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:51 pm

...and what size ransom rest groups do you get?

spence · Post by **spence** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:06 pm

bruce em wrote:Swaged are top quality at 50 yard sif you load them correctly; not on Dillon dies
regards

What kind of dies should one use? Can they be used on a dillon press?

Thanks,
spence

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:44 am

Spence don't worry about the dies. I load with Dillon seat and crimp dies for lead bullets mostly for the take apart and clean feature. And I find they make just as good a round as my Redding or RCBS seat and crimpers. Actually my favorite crimper is the RCBS TC seater with the seat stem removed. That is what I use for jacketed bullets along with the Redding micrometre seater. Oh- and I modified the Dillon seat plug to push on the shoulder.

I have not loaded any recently though. The 45 is sort of retired for the winter. I put another 22 upper on the wad gun frame for the time being. I hope to make a match or two in Salem before the Portland Sectional. You?

bruce em · Post by **bruce em** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:14 pm

What Jack says is fine for either jacketed or hard cast

It took me a long time to find them but I use Hornady new dimension 454 Casull dies . They size the case OD to 0.469 IIRC. Std dies size to 465 or less as makers dont want loose bullet complaints from ordinary users. That includes the smallest bullet OD in the thickest case. Not a good deal for match accuracy.

Think about it; the wall thickness is 11 mil on Federal, 14 on Amercs (junk) and 8 on remington. Do the math; take case OD from above - 2x wall thickness gives what inside diameter? And you're gonna stuff a soft slug in that without deforming it? I dont think so.

My jouney here began when old timers said their Star presses left loose bullets with some cases but the accuracy was outstanding. I couldnt get good accuract with swaged or flat base bullets , only with bevel base hard cast. I sure do now ! RR groups 50 yard under 2" in a good gun.

enjoy !

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:51 pm

http://m.hornady.com/store/454-Casull-F ... ie-1-Each/

Bruce, is this what you are using?

I can see the reasons for using the sizing die, but is there any additional atvantages to replacing the other dies with the Hornady Casulls?

spence · Post by **spence** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:30 pm

jackh wrote: I hope to make a match or two in Salem before the Portland Sectional. You?

PM sent.

Spence

bruce em · Post by **bruce em** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:45 am

All you need is the sizer, you'll like it, trust me

good luck and see you at perry

shadow · Post by **shadow** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:08 pm

If the old timers with Star presses got great accuracy why not use the Star lifetime dies?

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:18 pm

Along the same lines Bruce, what sizing die would you use for loading 9mm match rounds?

You WILL see me at Camp Perry. :-)

bruce em · Post by **bruce em** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Ahhh da 9's

Not sure if you saw my BE-List posting on it; I have a stock 92fs

It has a 0.357 groove 1 in 10 barrel. WTF ! It will technically stabilize a 180 gr bullet. Went thru a similar exercise with 124 gr lead, which leaded at any loading. Now load 0.358 diameter 158 RN with Unique. I get 960 fps and decent 25 yd and 50 ft accuracy.

The secret there is to use UNSIZED shells, specifically Federals as they are straight wall cases; others are tapered. A 45 die pokes out primers. The bullet seats with finger pressure and crimp holds it securely. (same thing works with 32 S&WL also from BE-list discussion). Tapered cases wont finger seat and crush the bullet base in if you use the press to do it.

Try it. ps there are published loads for 147 and 158 gr 9mm subsonics.

regards

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:20 am

Bruce, I have heard about the leading problems. I am thinking I may want to run nothing but jacketed bullets through the gun. Will plated bullets solve the leading issue?

What do you think of these for a potential short line load?

http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14476 ... gr_HP.aspx

I have been told to use the Hornady 115g XTP JHP for the long line. I have the slow twist rate KKM barrel in my Beretta, and will have the same in my 1911 9mm.

bruce em · Post by **bruce em** » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:36 pm

I can't say about the KKM barrel and loads but I understand plated are seldom very accurate.

If you have a bullet under groove size, you will get leading

Everyone wants screamers out of a 9 and I don't think it is necessary.

Measure the groove and get the right size bullet

I gotta bug Jeffie to try it too

regards

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:08 pm

You will probably get better results with these from Hi Tech than you will with Berrys. Prices are 500 and thousand
9mm 115 gr. Full Metal Jacket $45 $84
9mm 115 Gr. Hollow Point, New Nosler $60 $115
9mm 124 Gr. Hollow Point, New Nosler $65 $120
9mm 124 gr. Full Metal Jacket $46 $89

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:39 pm

I understand what you are saying oldcaster, but I consider 11 or 12 cents a bullet to be kind of pricy for the short line. I use the 160g Valiants for the short line and indoors, for my 45 and those are abut six cents a piece.
I already have 3600 Hornadays and Zeros for the long line, and I am only looking fir 25 yard accuracy with the Berrys.

If I can't get the accuracy I want at 25 yards, I will just stick with the Zeros for the short line. I think they were just a tad over 100 bucks for a thousand.

I don't like to shoot FMJ in a bullseye match. The ragged holes confuse a lot of people, and if a master class shooter is not scoring me, I find I have to call for a plug more often than I would like. It shifts my focus away from my shooting.

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:46 am

I agree that poor bullet holes can be a problem just like you said, but I don't think you will get decent 25 yard groups from the Berrys. If you do have decent results let us know because perhaps, they have improved in the last few years.
6 cents a bullet for anything that can be used at even 25 yards is a good deal because I think, by the time, I run around getting lead and sometimes adding tin + lube, they may cost at least close to that much for me to mold not mentioning time which I guess I now have plenty of.

The biggest reason I even cast is because my 45 cast bullets at 50 yards are the most accurate thing I can come up with but only by a small margin but 38's are quite a bit more accurate. I only shoot 60 45s a week now since I quit indoors so that is only about 3000 45s and 1500 38s not counting matches or random practices in the summer.

I have a 92FS that is completely accurized and want to try to see if I can get a lead bullet to shoot accurately at 50 yards so I don't have to buy jacketed. After a year and a half messing with the 32 and finally being successful at 50, I have some ideas that might work out in the 9mm. I spent a little time shooting a Saeco 115 SWC and it shows promise but with a few bad flyers. We'll see. -- Bill --

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Bullet Selecttion - Swaged vs Cast

Bullet Selecttion - Swaged vs Cast

Swaged or cast