Something wrong with my lp10 sights? this can't be right!

[WHumphrey]

I recently purchased a steyer lp10
Fantastic air pistol,
One thing confuses me though.
Right out of the box it seemed to shoot very very high.
I assumed that this was because it is a match pistol and designed to sight in at the bottom of the black area of a 10 m air pistol target only, (not for plinking , where you'd sight in pretty much for the middle of what you were aiming at)
So, I started sighting in at 10 m for the 6 o'clock of the black area of a 10 m tgt, which is about 59 mm in dia.
I found that I had to move the rear sight all the way to the bottom , & then when that wasn't quite enough, I had to move up the rear sight notch adjustment plate all the way to the top to make enough room to lower it even more ( so It would clear the rear of the grip) finally getting it sighted in with just a hair's width between the bottom of the rear sight and the top of the grip. This can't be right can it? Am I making incorrect assumptions about where one should aim for this kind of shooting? Are there different height front sights I should be using?
I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone reading this might have. Otherwise I have to send the pistol back to have it looked at I guess.

[Richard H]

The problem is more likely with the adjustment of the grip. The grip adjustments can be moved beyond what the grip can accommodate. The grip adjust ment is made by the 4 small screws on the bottom and on the back, you can see them when yo take it out of the grip.

Loosen the screw in the middle of the sight and slide it back a little it will also give you more clearance.

The pistol should be able to be sighted in from deep sub six to center without the need of any other sights.

[WHumphrey]

Well , what do you know, I didn't realize I could adjust that sight block back like that. I was hesitant to mess with the grip 'since I finally got it set the way I like it. However, moving that sight block has given me all the clearance I need. Thanks for the tip! I still wonder if it is weird that I have to move the sight that far down to get the gun to shoot straight. Does that seem within reason to you?

[David Levene]

Maybe it's my imagination but that gun really looks like it's sitting very low in the grip.

Just a thought but if you look at the drawing in the manual you will see 2 pieces, 73.6 & 73.7, that fit inside the grip. It might be worth checking they are both there.

[jbshooter]

You may have a LP50 grip on there.

[Richard H]

Is the LP50 grip different than the LP5, on the LP 5 there was a big plastic spacer almost 1 cm because the grip was the same as the LP10

There should be a steel "L" shaped piece in the LP10 grip you might want to see that the steel piece is in there.

[WHumphrey]

These are all very insightful suggestions. (Many thanks, all!)
I have checked and found:
I do appear to have that "L shaped" metal bit in the grip. (it's what the grip position screws are acting against)
I don't think its an LP50 grip, unless they have an LP50E because this is and LP10 E and has a battery compartment in the grip.

The way the gun is manufactured I cannot see any way that it could be built wrong in such a way as to cause extremely consistent high points of impact. EG there's no way the barrel isn't in straight, and I can't see how the sights could have been incorrectly installed in such a way as to cause this problem. The consensus here seems to be that the grip is the problem (action riding low in the grip) and that the angle of the rear sight block is reasonable. I'm still not convinced that I'm not doing something wrong. Perhaps the sight block was just way too far forward as shipped? Certainly the earlier suggestion of moving the rear sight block back a bit has given me enough clearance to move the rear sight further down if needed. Also, I've noticed by careful examination of the manual I have noticed that there are actually 4 adjustment points at the
bottom of the action involved with rake angle.(I only noticed2) When I adjusted the grips, I only adjusted the twist because I found the rake angle to be perfect. However, I noted that all the screws involved with the rake angle (bottom) were all completely flush. I wonder if I should back them all out by the same amount to bring the action up a bit?
My only concern is that I don't want to adjust the elevation on the rear sight beyond its intended range and damage something. If the angle of the rear sight mechanism looks within reason, maybe I just needed to reposition the block backwards/adjust the various grip screws more carefully.

BTW, does anyone know if you can get optional sights in different heights?
I looked at pilkgun's website, and they seem to have them, but it looks to me like they are different widths rather than different heights (though the sales page says they are by height) I measured my front sight with a caliper and it is exactly 4.5 mm wide (as is stamped on the part) and is much taller than 4.5 mm, (unless you measure it at the bend near the front)

[Richard H]

As far as I know they only have widths.

Are you at the extreme end of the elevation adjustment? I click is only 1.3 mm I think there's lots of adjustment available. If your not at the end of travel pick a direction and count the clicks that are left.

[David Levene]

I do appear to have that "L shaped" metal bit in the grip. (it's what the grip position screws are acting against)

I don't know the LP10E well enough to know whether you should also have the spacer below that plate. Look at this video, which is for the LP10, to see what I am talking about.

The more I compare your pictures with others of LP10Es the more it looks like yours is sitting lower in the grip. That would explain why you do not have the full range of sight adjustment without having it hanging off the back of the gun.

As I say though, I don't know the LP10E well enough. Perhaps other who do could chip in with whether the thick spacer should be there.

[taz]

Your pistol is fine.
I have an LP10E and it looks the same as yours.
There is no thick spacer only the L shaped piece.

[David Levene]

Thanks for clarifying that Taz.

[Makris D. G.]

Be reminded that there is no separate LP10 and LP50 grip,
with the black spacer installed it fits the LP10, without the spacer the LP50.
The -E models have the same trigger module so no need for spacer there.

[WHumphrey]

Thanks everyone!
This is all very good information that has helped me determine where to look for the issue & seems to be in agreement with the suggestions offered by Pilkington. It would seem that they also believe that the grip is simply not adjusted correctly. Thanks to the suggestions from this forum, I have been able to eliminate many of the variables & found that there are 2 more adjustment screws at the bottom of the action than I previously realized. At first I thought there were only 2 controlling the rake angle. However, since there are 4 (presumably allowing the gun to be adjusted for rake and cant ) these screws can be adjusted identically , resulting in raising the action in relation to the grip. Additionally , I have the option of moving the sight block back so that it clears at lower settings. I have also checked the rear sight travel as suggested & determined that the rear sight has plenty of adjustment travel. So it would seem that there really isn't anything wrong with the pistol, but rather, I just didn't understand all the different ranges and modes of adjustment. Thanks again everyone and happy shooting!

[John Marchant]

From the photos it would appear that you have a considerable angular offset on the trigger shoe, presumably as you are struggling to reach the trigger. There looks to be some adjustment still available to move the trigger shoe assembly towards the rear which should allow you to rotate the trigger shoe back to a more neautral position.
With the current setting there is a potential to exert a compound force vector onto the trigger which could lead to shots being pushed to the left.

[Jack Milchanowski]

Disregard

[taz]

As already mentioned the LP10E grip is adjustable for cant, rake and sight angle. Comparing a pic from the Steyr site to another only means that these are adjusted differently.
According to Steyr's instructions cant and rake cannot be adjusted at the same time, so you will have to make a choice which one is more important to you.
Here is how you remove the grip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7CK1xEysBc
and here you can find info on adjusting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_4oMXIe ... vk1O20rLXw

[Makris D. G.]

According to Steyr's instructions cant and rake cannot be adjusted at the same time, so you will have to make a choice which one is more important to you.

While the video does say that, it is actually possible, you will have to make sure that all 4 screw heads are on the same plane which will need some tweaking, but it is possible to achieve some amount of cant together with rake within the confines of the grip cutout.
One should be careful of extreme settings, as tighening the grip on a gun with too much cant can cause the grips to crack at the sides, but a wrong setting will be easy enough to spot before causing damage...

[Richard H]

Yes you can adjust both, but you have to watch the clearance in the pocket.

On both my LP10 and 10E I took a dremel and opened up the pocket some as well and also removed material around the sight. It just gives a little extra clearance and room for adjustment.

Just be careful when you put the grip on and start tightening it, make sure there is clearance or you will hear a godawful crack, I know from experience.

[WHumphrey]

From the photos it would appear that you have a considerable angular offset on the trigger shoe, presumably as you are struggling to reach the trigger. There looks to be some adjustment still available to move the trigger shoe assembly towards the rear which should allow you to rotate the trigger shoe back to a more neautral position.
With the current setting there is a potential to exert a compound force vector onto the trigger which could lead to shots being pushed to the left.

I've been wondering about that. I have set my Webly Alecto ultras the same way. It just feels really good to me that way.The result has been mostly positive, but if I use poor form in my trigger pull(i.e. try to "snap"the trigger when the sight picture is irresistibly good, rather than a disciplined, steady pull) the shot will often pull left. On the Steyr however, I can also swing the trigger out to the right as well as twisting it. (swinging it out will create a right tending vector component) So far, it seems to behave in a fairly neutral manner. I should probably try some other configurations though to make sure I'm not missing out on a better setup.
SO many possibilities !

[Chris]

With mine to get the grip rake angle I wanted I used longer adjusting screws to push the frame up and out of the grip more. I also removed some of the wood on the grip which is directly under the rear sight so they did not hit.