TargetTalk

Hello friends,

I am new to the forum. I shoot AP and muzzeloader handguns of ll types in replica categories in competiton level.

I am starting with the Free pistol. I have an option of buying an used Hämmerli FP60 (the swiss made blue one) with a Rink grip of my size or a Toz35 where I will have to buy a new Rink grip to fit in correctly.

I have read different topics on the pistols on this forum. I am in a doubt. Let me explain.

- The FP60 and the TOZ35 (after buying a new grip from Rink) will be almost of same price (a difference of 50 Euros may be). The asked price of the FP60 is very interestng.

- Being fellowshooters, I know the sellers very well. The owner of Toz does not shoot 50m FP anymore. The owner of the Hämmerli FP60 has gone back to the TOZ35 after having tried his hand even on a Morini CM84E which he sold off too. He says that he could not adjust to the grip of the Hammerli.

- I personally shoot a Hammerli AP40 and find the FP60 easier to handle because the sights and adjustments are identical. Getting adjusted to the sights of Toz will take some time, I guess.

- I did not read very very positive remarks on the FP60 on this forum. It is fragile with an aluminium frame...

The price factor is very important because I can not afford to buy a new gun.
What do you suggest me to finalize?

regards
tirpassion

Tirpassion;

I shot a Toz with a Rink grip for awhile.
Never shot over a 500 with it.
Purchased an FP60 with a Morini grip and shot a 508 in my first match.

Hmmmm;
The Toz was very forgiving(shots that I swear were bad and after scoping were not that bad at all).
The FP60 is very forgiving(shots that I swear were bad and after scoping were not that bad at all).

The Rink grip never really fit my hand as good as the Morini does now...

I like all of the sight adjustments available on the FP60(width and depth of the rear blade).

Please do not ask me how much light is on either side and under the black circle(I cant tell you, my mind says it is just right).

As far as being aluminum, hell it only fires a .22 long rifle, not going to hurt it one bit.

I am not a world class FP shooter, but my first string of 20 shots, scored a 177-6x(10's) firing Eley match pistol(998fps)

I like the trigger on the FP60(a bar with an o-ring).
The o-ring helps you put your finger on the trigger in the same spot every time.(memory bump)

Long story short.
I am glad I went from the TOZ to the FP60.
Your mileage may vary...

I will leave you with this.
In my three years of pistol shooting there is only the sight picture and the trigger control that makes everything come together.

As long as you can consistantly have the same comfortable grip, trigger and sights all lined up with the universe, then you are golden : )

Clarence

C. Perkins wrote:Tirpassion;

The FP60 is very forgiving(shots that I swear were bad and after scoping were not that bad at all).

Clarence

Umm... what. The FP60 is the most unforgiving pistol I have ever seen or heard about.

The Toz and the FP60 are very, very different pistols.

I have an FP60 and love it to bits. It is such an accurate pistol and I find it gives excellent feedback.

Given the choice I'd take the FP60 every day of the week.

There's been plenty daid about the FP60 on this forum, use the search function and have a bit of a look.

At the end of the day, you've gotta try both and see what's going to work for you.

Good luck.

Do a search. I found this easily:

http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?p=92097

LASTMAN;

Umm...

Forget it...

Clarence

I would go for the FP60. I own a 160 special and am very happy with it. The FP60 is closely derived from the 160 with better sights (rear sight width adjustment added while on the 160 you have to change the blade to change the width), new trigger blade and aluminum frame.

The frame itself isn't fragile on the FP60. What is fragile are some trigger adjustments which are made by small screws with threads directly threaded in the aluminum of the frame. You should only be very careful when adjusting these screws if needed.

For the grip, adjusting a FP grip to your hand is very difficult more than a SP or AP grip.

Thanks friends for your feedback.

Rover, I have gone through a lot of topics on this forum including the one you have cited. I had some doubts still. So, I came up with the topic for a definite reply like 'Yes' go for This or That, given the situation I am in.

Lastman, I have shot both the pistols. Practice matches. Counted the points.
468 with the TOZ (original modified grip which is too big for me + difficulty in sight alignments naturally) in 1h15m
498 with the Hammerli (Rink grip of my size, sight alignment was easier) in 1h10m.

In case of shooting with the Hammerli, no sighter shots were taken. Adjustments were done during the 60 counted shots. May be I felt more confident with it as I was familiar with the sights (courtesy my AP40).
The AP40 does not have an unanimous YES either but I just love this gun. I took almost two years to understand it. If the FP60 is of the same character, with time, a new love story is on the making.

Thanks C perkins and Merci Jipe for your feedbacks also. I will go for the Hämmerli FP60. As you said Jipe, I will be careful with the adjustment screws. Une fois réglé, ne touche plus à rien! C'est compris!

thanks a million

tirpassion

Everything else being equal, I, too, would go with the FP60 just for its superior quality of manufacture.

For some odd reason, many of the TOZ front sights are canted to the left. With mine, I corrected that by filing the rear sight down on one side and cutting a U-notch. On all my guns I write the sight corrections large on the side of the grip so I can easily read them with my shooting glasses on.

The front sight on my TOZ was also canted, but I fixed it by filling in the dimple on the barrel with JB Weld, resetting the sight band and using Lock-Tite on the screw and band to hold it all in place. I also changed the rear sight blade out for a Pardini sight, which is adjustable for width but not depth, by making a small adapter plate.

The grip still sucks, tho'.

Roger

Well, I am zeroing in on the FP60. Saturday afternoon, I went to shoot with it. 497. Sprayed only 4 in the white part of the target, the worst being a 5. I am in the process of working on the grip hold pressure. The next will be to work out the aim zone.

Thanks again for your suggestions.
tirpassion

You bet that FP is different from AP.

I went to shoot AP after a month almost of fiddling with the FPs. Goodness Lord! The trigger seemed so heavy! I forgot totally the squeeze pressure and the grip holding pressure. It was surprising!

How do you analyze that? The muscle memory???

regards
tirpassion

To all Hämmerli FP60 users

Hello,

I was wondering if you could suggest the ammunition of entry level for the FP60. For the moment I would not like to invest on costlier ammunition. I have tried the CCI standard velocity and the SK standard plus till now. The CCI standard looks to be better adapted than the SK in a few hundred shots.

I would appreciate your opinion about the RWS and the Eley products.

warm regards
tirpassion

I also found the difference between a FP trigger and one on an AP or CF pistol a difficult. The first time I had the TOZ and a S&W Model 52 at the range on the same night I started by shooting the TOZ for a while. When I tried to shoot the S&W it felt like the trigger was welded to the frame. Practice makes a big difference - a lot of dry firing helped me. I think you eventually get a mindset and muscle memory.

Roger

tirpassion wrote:To all Hämmerli FP60 users

Hello,

I was wondering if you could suggest the ammunition of entry level for the FP60. For the moment I would not like to invest on costlier ammunition. I have tried the CCI standard velocity and the SK standard plus till now. The CCI standard looks to be better adapted than the SK in a few hundred shots.

I would appreciate your opinion about the RWS and the Eley products.

warm regards
tirpassion

RWS and Eley both make excellent ammunition. Likley any lead round nose standard velocity ammunition will serve you well as an entry level Free pistol shooter. Range time and ensuring your grip fits you well should be your focus rather than worrying which ammo to use.

I hope this helps,

Brian

Tirpassion:

Pour la munition, c'est vrai que c'est important. Mais, je doute que la difference (pour votre marque) soit tres significant... surtout si votre marque est moins que 500 ou 510.

Pour commencer, je vous recommande acheter ceux qui marchent avec ton pistolet (par example, Federal - mais je ne sais pas si c'est vendu en Europe). Practiquer avec ce munition "basse" ne sera pas terrible. Vous pourrez ameliorer et il sera moins cher.

Apres, quand vous voulez vraiment la munition, achetez des types differentes. Mettez le pistolet dans un etau et tirez avec chaque type.

Bonne chance!

Thanks Brian,
Merci Vhoff,

You are right. I need to concentrate more on the grip and the technical part before thinking about the ammunition. I need also to work a lot on the aim zone.
The CCI is nice but a bit difficult to fit in the chamber. I need to force it in a bit.

Pour la question de 'marque', je n'ai pas encore eu l'occasion de laisser ma marque ou mon empreinte sur le domaine du pistolet libre. Mais pour l'instant cela s'annonce nettement loin de 500/510. Je veux dire en dessous biensûr.

regards
tirpassion

Friends,

I am working with the FP60. It is getting better. However, I find a small problem. I am at the end of the windage/lateral adjustment screw towards the left and I can not go beyond in case I would need to because of wind.
Can you suggest me any solution?

regards
tirpassion

You could file the notch a little on one side; it probably needs a little widening anyway. The problem may be just you, though.

Hi,
I got the FP fixed finally. Got 1mm cut off from the extreme left end of the rear site blade. Now, it moves freely more towards the left.
BTW, My first outing with the FP60 in an official match got me 499. Now, I am hungry for more...

tirpassion