TargetTalk

Hi:

I have a carbine Anschutz Match 54, barrel 27.2" (69 cm), built in 1963, in perfect conditions. I mostly use it with the diopter as either free-carbine (three positions, with the appropriate extra parts for each position), or bench-rest. The performance of the gun - in the hand of the best shooters here - is excellent.

Now I wanted to tune the carbine further, setting the appropriate torque weight. Anschutz suggest 5 N m for their Match carbines (I have their torque wrench 4-12 N m, a recent one) but I wonder whether this applies also to the year of my carbine. In fact, by applying 5 N m, the screw comes out a bit, just to hinder the bolt going to position to load a cartridge.

Hope a forum member has specific experience. Internet search - even on German Google - gave no indications, actually I was unable to find any indication as to torque weight / Match 54 year. Should 5 Nm be the correct value, either the screw has to be shortened or some suitable material should be placed in between the barrel and wood.

thanks
chiendarret

You have sort of answered your question. The Rifle stock has probably been crushed by too much torque in the past resulting in the Bolt being too long.
The Stock will have to be re-bedded or the Bolt shortened. The recommendation for WOODEN Stocks should still hold true for your Rifle providing it has not been crushed.

No, the gun was only used once in 1963, then it was oiled and and no more used. No torque wrench had been used, just an old style screwdriver. And, with these old-style screws, a 5 N m could not be set. I now used hexagonal keys. There is absolutely no sign of crushing.

The point is to know which torque value the carbine was devised for. I'll do nothing than using mildly a hand screwdriver and old-style screws until such information becomes available. There must be expert gunsmiths for vintage 22LR around the world.

thanks

The reason for my reply was that I shot in that era and well remember shooters using a large screw driver and by large I mean large and putting a lot of force on it. I would have no idea what force was applied but it would have been extreme, there were and are cases of thread stripping in the action. I assumed by the age of yours that it might have been similarly treated by a previous owner.
A lot of shooters now replace the slotted Heads with Allen ones so that they can use a torque wrench easily.
In my opinion the wood used then was probably better than that currently used so modern torque recommendations for wood should be OK.

Looked up my old Diarys and see we were using between 30 and 40 Inch Pounds, roughly 3 to 4 Nm.

Solved: The new socket-head screw is 0.2 mm longer than the original old-type screw. Enough to cause the problems described even at torque 4 N m. I relied on the specialist who made the socket-head screws but I should have checked. The other (shorter) socket-head screw is even more out: 0.4 mm longer than the original old-type screw.

With socket-head screws the use of a torque wrench is easier, not to apply more than needed. Just to stay in the norm.

Anyway, thanks for warning. What you described may easily happen. Surely it was the first check to carry out.

The age of your Match 54 action is not going to make a terrible amount of difference in the ultimate best torque value. The dimensions of the action and the barrel have changed very little over the years, until you get into the era with short barrels and long bloop tubes to make up the sight radius.

Given that the stock is almost 50 years old, even if it had not been abused it would not be a shock if the wood had compressed a bit. Tighten the screws and leave wood under pressure for 50 years and the system is going to relax a bit. Now, especially when you are using aftermarket hex head screws it is pretty common to make them long and have to grind 0.5mm or so off the tip. It is IMPERATIVE that you make sure the bedding screws are not binding either to the bottom of the bolt. (this is obvious) but also not bottoming in the front bedding screw either. This is a common problem with aftermarket bolts, bottoming on the bottom of the barrel in the front of the action.

Now, once that is all good, honestly, your 5-Nm number without extensive testing is pretty good.

Most of your Anschutz will hit their sweet spot somewhere between 30 and 50 in-lbs. I will have to say that most of my rifles that spot is between 40-45 in-lbs. (I have a number of early 70s to early 80s Match 54 actions)

In the US we still use these funny things called in-lbs and all my gear is calibrated such. This does not mean that I don't also keep the conversions handy.

30 in-lbs = 3.39Nm
35 in-lbs = 3.95Nm
40 in-lbs = 4.52Nm
45 in-lbs = 5.08Nm
50 in-lbs = 5.65Nm

When I am setting up an action to a new stock, I put a scope on the rifle and start shooing 5 shot groups, 3 groups at 30 in-lbs, then 3 groups at 35 in-lbs, then 3 groups at .... etc etc etc. Don't go higher than 50 in-lbs (5.65 Nm) Those are fine threads and as I will discuss in a moment, the front threads are delicate.

It will usually be clear that two of the settings are better than all the others. Then you have to start shooting groups with more like 10, 15 or 30 rounds to really get it clear which one is going to perform the best. Hey, this stuff is time consuming because you have to do the same thing to find a good lot of ammo too. Only after you do all this can you truly say this is the best setting for a particular rifle.

As you have already found, for most Anschutz, 45 in-lbs or 5.1 Nm is a pretty good place to start if don't have time for extensive testing.

Now the next caution, you say this rifle is from 1963. At that time, and up until the mid 1970s Anschutz heated the actions when they put the barrels in. This caused the metal to soften. It is not uncommon for rifles that get used a lot to have the threads on the front action screw strip out. Best not to be constantly setting and releasing the torque. Set to whatever is best and leave it, maybe check it periodically to make sure the wood has not settled some but not too much working the threads or you will be looking for a 'smith to fix some pulled out threads.

Good Luck,
'Dude

Thanks, particularly for the last warning.

A week ago I ordered from Sinclair, TX, a BKL 30mmx4" long cantilever that should fit the only available 11mm rail (the one for the diopter), while - hopefully - allowing to load the gun. If OK, I'll be able to mount a scope for doing what you suggest.

However, I am mostly at the three positions, free carbine. Without modifying the carbine, I have adapted the pieces for the Olympic games (of the same age as my gun, found unused at our shooting club). There, this morning a club member belonging to our national team for the free carbine has performed with my Match 54, at the three positions, comparably to his own 22LR (an assembled one, Al stock). A former champion, now vice president of our club, commented that those were great times ....

Regards.

justadude wrote:The age of your Match 54 action is not going to make a terrible amount of difference in the ultimate best torque value. The dimensions of the action and the barrel have changed very little over the years, until you get into the era with short barrels and long bloop tubes to make up the sight radius.

Given that the stock is almost 50 years old, even if it had not been abused it would not be a shock if the wood had compressed a bit. Tighten the screws and leave wood under pressure for 50 years and the system is going to relax a bit. Now, especially when you are using aftermarket hex head screws it is pretty common to make them long and have to grind 0.5mm or so off the tip. It is IMPERATIVE that you make sure the bedding screws are not binding either to the bottom of the bolt. (this is obvious) but also not bottoming in the front bedding screw either. This is a common problem with aftermarket bolts, bottoming on the bottom of the barrel in the front of the action.

Now, once that is all good, honestly, your 5-Nm number without extensive testing is pretty good.

Most of your Anschutz will hit their sweet spot somewhere between 30 and 50 in-lbs. I will have to say that most of my rifles that spot is between 40-45 in-lbs. (I have a number of early 70s to early 80s Match 54 actions)

In the US we still use these funny things called in-lbs and all my gear is calibrated such. This does not mean that I don't also keep the conversions handy.

30 in-lbs = 3.39Nm
35 in-lbs = 3.95Nm
40 in-lbs = 4.52Nm
45 in-lbs = 5.08Nm
50 in-lbs = 5.65Nm

When I am setting up an action to a new stock, I put a scope on the rifle and start shooing 5 shot groups, 3 groups at 30 in-lbs, then 3 groups at 35 in-lbs, then 3 groups at .... etc etc etc. Don't go higher than 50 in-lbs (5.65 Nm) Those are fine threads and as I will discuss in a moment, the front threads are delicate.

It will usually be clear that two of the settings are better than all the others. Then you have to start shooting groups with more like 10, 15 or 30 rounds to really get it clear which one is going to perform the best. Hey, this stuff is time consuming because you have to do the same thing to find a good lot of ammo too. Only after you do all this can you truly say this is the best setting for a particular rifle.

As you have already found, for most Anschutz, 45 in-lbs or 5.1 Nm is a pretty good place to start if don't have time for extensive testing.

Now the next caution, you say this rifle is from 1963. At that time, and up until the mid 1970s Anschutz heated the actions when they put the barrels in. This caused the metal to soften. It is not uncommon for rifles that get used a lot to have the threads on the front action screw strip out. Best not to be constantly setting and releasing the torque. Set to whatever is best and leave it, maybe check it periodically to make sure the wood has not settled some but not too much working the threads or you will be looking for a 'smith to fix some pulled out threads.

Good Luck,
'Dude

What a knowledgeable and helpful reply! Useful for any Match 54 owner.