TargetTalk

So I'm finally looking to upgrade my Hammerli 480k. I shoot from 520s - 540s. Any suggestions?

My grip - medium, yet with really long fingers. I always have to move the trigger forward the max for proper contact.... maybe a large grip & shave to fit?

My eyes - getting older & recent sight issues with multiple lens change outs (not diabetic, just hit 45)

My frame - 6' with rather long arms and the beginning of a low-midriff anchor(paunch).

And budget? Do you want it to be completely independent (single stroke pneumatic), or would you rather have the extra hassle of a cylinder that goes with a newer pistol?

Do you want a new-fangled electric trigger, or is a traditional mechanical good enough for you. Any opportunity to put your hands on a few APs that interest you?

There are lots more questions too, and even then a good suggestion will still only be on persons opinion of what they think would be best. So start with the top 2 questions, it'll be easier to narrow from there.

Oops ...

$s - As expected for top quality pieces. Have owned IZH46 & averaged 530-550, bought Hammerli 480k & averaged 520-540 (also practiced less).

Compressed Air desired. I already have scuba tank for Air Rifle.

Mechanical trigger - Not sure I'm ready for the electronic yet.

I'm more concerned about fit and noticeable differences people have seen in the higher priced models. I'm not expecting to buy points, but maybe more reliability and consistency. Luckily I can practice at home(when not working or when wife not home :) .... )

Ok, so that limits things pretty well. Steyr LP10/LP2, Anschutz LP@, Walther LP300/lp400, Pardini K10, FWB P44, Benelli Kite, Hammerli AP60, Match Guns MG1, and they kinda get less known/available from there.

Personally, I went from the IZH 46m to the Steyr LP10 for 2 main reasons. The first was availability on the used market. When I bought mine in 2008, there were several for sale, usually 2 a month, and they were the lowest priced. The second was that it Directly answered the biggest issue I had with the Baikal, that it was nose-heavy and I couldn't adjust the grip angle/rake to keep the sights perfectly aligned without modifying the fit of the grip to my hand. With the LP10, once I got the grip fitting my hand, it was simple to adjust it so the sights were aligned. I have no complaints with it.

That's what I suggest you consider next. Since you're making the opportunity to fix the major complaints you've had with your 2 prior APs, take full advantage of the opportunity. But don't sacrifice what you LIKE about those as well. If you'd rather have a lighter pistol, take a look at the Compact/Short/Lite versions.

For the money, if you only have $1200-ish (that was my limit), then you might be buying what becomes available used for that price. But all those I mentioned above will function superbly.

Dance with the girl you brung, but tweak the sweet spots.

How about using whatever money you feel like spending on help from Russ? As long as your Hämmerli is mechanically sound what good reason is there to replace it?

Two questions:

NikNak: What do you find unsatisfactory about the Hammerli?

Brian M: What do you find unsatisfactory about the Morini CM 162?

Roger

RandomShotz wrote:Brian M: What do you find unsatisfactory about the Morini CM 162?

Roger

All Morini PCP's are electronic trigger, right? I honestly don't know much about Morini (or anything but what I've owned).

The Morini 162E is one of the greatest guns out there---still less than $2000 new. I owned one and foolishly sold it and then replaced it with an LP10...."Doc"

Morini also has a mechanical trigger, though no where near as popular as their electronic trigger.

The Morini CM162 ME is the mechanical trigger version. I have the IE, mostly because a used one came available in my price range around the time I was looking to upgrade from an Izzy. I have no way of comparing it to the other guns you mentioned and was wondering if you had left it off for a reason. They occasionally come up for sale on this forum for around $12-1300.

And I don't know that the electronic trigger is more complicated or less reliable. In the case of the Morini, I believe that the mechanical version has adjustments in the grip that are not available for the electronic model because Morini chose to use a rigid connection to the board which will not permit moving the grip with respect to the gun frame. To be honest, I didn't miss it - I was relatively new and adjusted to the gun rather than expect it to adjust to me.

But aside from the fact that the Hammerli is an older model I still don't know what its downsides are, especially if it has been converted from CO2 to PCP.

Roger

Morini will be the winner for me if I choose to compete again.

Maybe it is just my perception, but it "seems" that the German/Austrian pistols have a longer trigger reach than the Italian pistols.
My Walther CPM1 is at its minimum/closest trigger adjustment and the max grip material was removed to get my hand forward, and I just barely reach the trigger.
The Styer that I tried "seemed" to have a similarly long trigger reach.
But the 2 Morinis and a Pardini K58 that I tried seemed to be much more friendly to small hand/short finger folks like me.

So what I am saying for the OP is to try for fit if at all possible. You may feel a significant fit difference between brands, even accounting for grip sizes.

RandomShotz wrote:Two questions:

NikNak: What do you find unsatisfactory about the Hammerli?

Roger

Hammerli Issues:
1. I'm not sure spare cylinders are still available and my primary one just started to bleed this week. I only have one good one left.
2. Shots are off call more often than they were with the IZH.
3. Weights not available and I actually leave the guage on the cylinder to acheive acceptable balance.
4. The original o-rings decomposed and I had to make do with knock-offs from a local bearing house that seem to do the trick.
5. Original O-rings no longer available from Larry's, or anywhere.... even checked Hammerli directly.
6. Spare cylinders are questionable as to availability.

william wrote:How about using whatever money you feel like spending on help from Russ? As long as your Hämmerli is mechanically sound what good reason is there to replace it?

Ok, so I'm a newbie and self-taught/coached ... who's "Russ" and how does he help?

Russ is a teacher/coach who posts on TargetTalk. You can find his profile here:

profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1301

There is also a link to his website on his profile.

His advice sometimes seems a little mystical, but I think that is due to the fact that he emphasizes the mental nature of the game and that he is Russian and his English is occasionally idiosyncratic. He can be controversial and discussions can heat up a bit. However, I can see how his point of view can be valuable to serious shooters who are open to his approach. Once a shooter gets the physical game under control, moving up into the higher scores is very much a mental exercise.

I just picked up a SAM K10 which is an older pistol designed by Cesare Morini. SAM is a small company that is still in business and I've ordered a set of rings and the funky Euro DIN adapter directly from them. They even have cylinders in stock in case I need one. It's a shame that a bigger manufacturer like Hammerli does not properly support its earlier offerings. There is no reason why a nice piece of hardware like that shouldn't last indefinitely. Hammerli o-rings are not magic - appropriate o-rings should be available from commercial sources. But replacing the cylinder is another problem entirely, especially since important competitions are screening for out of date cylinders.

Roger

I had an item by item fixit response to Niknak's list of "problems", but then I realized he just wants a new toy.

If he's shooting 520s, big competitions are not a concern. I have yet to hear of any cylinder checking in the U.S.

If you have the cash, any of the "Big Four" will do fine. If you are a victim of the Obamanation, you'll only find a used LP1 or Pardini K2 in your price range (if you have a PCP setup).

BTW If your shots are not going to call, it's not the gun.

"BTW If your shots are not going to call, it's not the gun."

This sentence as itself has no lesser value as the “Dry Fire” concept which was discussed earlier.

The question is, does someone KNOW how to apply it properly?
Again, about “KNOWing”...
Does someone understand what Patrick Haynes posted yesterday, or does he have more questions to answer?

If you are a victim of the Obamanation, you'll only find a used LP1 or Pardini K2 in your price range (if you have a PCP setup).

Does this MEAN anything, or is somebody just wasting our time with a cheap, unrelated political swipe?

Relax, William - it's not somebody, it's just Rover.


Roger