Trigger Blade Angle

markwarren · Post by **markwarren** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:09 am

Hi,

I am shooting a Steyr LP10 and wanted adivce on its trigger.

I currently have the blade at fully square to the barrel. However, I notice that my trigger finger does not fall 'flat' on the trigger - I can feel the edge of the trigger.

I feel as if I need to angle the trigger blade to the right but will this effect the pull of the trigger i.e. I would exert sideways forces, albeit small, on the trigger as I squeeze it for the shot?

Any advice as always is welcome.

Many thanks

Mark

LukeP · Post by **LukeP** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:55 am

Round the edge of the trigger, or look at steyr lp1 trigger, it has rounded hedge.

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:01 am

The angle you decide upon is entirely dependent on whether it will facilitate pulling the trigger straight to the rear without disturbing the sights. If you can do that now.....leave the trigger alone. If you can do that after angling the trigger....do that. The sole purpose of this adjustment is to achieve a straight back pull which does not disturb sight alignment.

The best way to determine whether your trigger control is working is by paying scrupulous attention to that front sight throughout your shot process and especially well into follow through.

I have come to believe that just because you CAN adjust something doesn't mean you MUST adjust something. Don't get me wrong....experimenting with the options is fun and sometimes a performance enhancer. Experimenting however should always be subordinate to maintaining sound fundamentals.

Good luck Mark.

markwarren · Post by **markwarren** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:25 am

Thank you for the replies.

LukeP - it is not a problem with the trigger being 'sharp', its just that I have the sensation of feeling the edge more than the flat part of the blade. That feeling sensation sometimes takes me away from my normal shot preparation process - more of a mental thing really but if I can get rid of that distraction it would be a step in the right direction

orionshooter - I think I need to give it a go. When I dry fire at the moment my sights stay nice and steady. As I have said to LukeP it is more of a 'mental distraction' than anything else. I totally agree that just because seomthing can be done, you don't necessarily have to try it.

Cheers

Mark

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:31 am

Mark if the trigger angle adjustment doesn't work consider slight adjustments/modifications to your grip/or the grips themselves. Maybe shortening up the distance between the grip and trigger face would provide the optimal ergonomics you are trying to achieve. Let us know how you make out.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:48 am

Mark
I would avoid angling the trigger, as one with small hands I have suffered with running out of rearward adjustement and tried angling the blade, it inevitably results in pulled shots, perhaps not all the time, but in a moment of stress or lack of concentration that is when you want it to work naturaly, and with an angled blade that inevitably means a pulled shot.
Shorten the trigger reach first, if you are out of adjustment alter the blade, I even made my own blades to get the finger straight.
Good shooting
Robin

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:34 am

RobinC wrote:Mark
I would avoid angling the trigger, as one with small hands I have suffered with running out of rearward adjustement and tried angling the blade, it inevitably results in pulled shots, perhaps not all the time, but in a moment of stress or lack of concentration . . .

I respectfully disagree. We should not plan our shot process and equipment set up around potential disasters such as performing under stress or lack of concentration. If you are under stress or suffer from lack of concentration and continue your shot process anyway, the position of your trigger is the least of your worries. The presence of either or both of these conditions are going to degrade your performance if you decide to shoot through them. If you feel a loss of concentration or are over stressed - put the gun down . . . take a deep breath and congratulate yourself on your self discipline. After all this is AP - you have plenty of time!

In contrast, I suggest a plan (to include your shot process AND equipment set up) around your perfect shot. Thinking and planning to shoot perfect shots will invevitably lead to more of them. Thinking and planning for disasters will . . .

GaryN · Post by **GaryN** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:11 pm

It sounds like the trigger blade is a bit too far forward.
Try moving it back just a bit and see if it feels better.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:43 am

GaryN wrote:It sounds like the trigger blade is a bit too far forward.
Try moving it back just a bit and see if it feels better.

I agree in that it sounds like the trigger is in the wrong place. If you have it positioned correctly your finger should sit on it perpendicular to the barrel. Tilting the blade is IMO asking for trouble as it increases the likelihood of you imparting sideways pressure on the trigger, with obvious consequences.

Rob.

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:22 am

Orion
You do it your way, but no amount of concentration will compensate for a wrong set up!
Robs post is spot on, an angled blade is asking for problems.
Robin

markwarren · Post by **markwarren** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:56 am

Thanks for all of your repsonses guys - much appreciated.

Having look at my trigger last night I don't have any more adjustment to take it back. The main problem I have is that I have short fingers.

I looked at Mannel's website with a view to possibly getting a new grip because they state "The air pistol is now situated 7 mm deeper in the grip!" which might help me. However, looking at their sizing chart my palm width and length come out as medium, but my index finger length doesn't even reach their minimum size !! Perhaps a custom made would be best option.

I have looked at my current standard Morini grip with a view to removing some of the wood from the rear of the grip - where the web of the hand would fit, but their doesnt seem to be a lot of room for manoeuvre before I would hit the void in the centre of the grip.

I have entered the BPC Open at Bisley on the 14th/15th of this month, my first comp !!, and may be able to pick up some advice on a face to face basis with someone who knows about grips and adjustments.

I will post how I go on but again many thanks for all of the advice.

Mark

flolo · Post by **flolo** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:28 am

Basically you can simulate the effect the maennel-grip has by removing that black plastic part inside your original grip. But it doesn't help in finger reach. It seems that many people have too short fingers for the steyr( and i don't have a clue how those asian shooters with very small hands do it). And take into consideration that after all, maybe a change for a pistol with shorter finger reach is the only solution. At least for me it was.

markwarren · Post by **markwarren** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:36 am

Hi flolo,

Thanks for your reply. Just as a matter of interest, what pistol did you go for?

Cheers

Mark

flolo · Post by **flolo** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:55 am

Morini. And the first time shooting was like finally being there. Don't get me wrong: a friend of mine and me tried nearly everything( trigger blades, rink and maennel custom grips etc.). My friend stays with the steyr after removing the metal bracket inside the the grip and as much wood as possible while i changed. Another pistol that might be of interest is the new walther( which seems to be built for smaller hands, but i sold mine because the morini suits me better)

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:56 am

RobinC wrote:Orion
You do it your way, but no amount of concentration will compensate for a wrong set up!
Robs post is spot on, an angled blade is asking for problems.
Robin

So much for my attempt at respectfully disagreeing. Nonetheless I appreciate your permission to do it my way.

I believe you have lost sight of the argument. The position I took was that the angle of a trigger blade will not matter if you have lost your concentration. My suggestion was if you have lost your concentration, put the gun down. Your response was that an angled trigger blade will destroy a shot no matter good the concentration. POPPYCOCK.

Manufacturers provide this feature because some of us can make these fine adjustments with success. What constitutes a wrong setup is specific to each shooter's needs and shooting styles. Blanket statements that one should "NEVER" try something are once again, POPPYCOCK.

flolo · Post by **flolo** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:53 am

Dear orionshooter: from your point of view your arguments seem right.
BUT: your point of view is from the wrong direction. It's not about concentration to shoot perfect shots but about avoiding bad shots. You simply can't ( even on international level) always focus to the max, so trying to do anything to avoid bad shots( which really ruin your score) has to be the way to go! This means to get rid of as much as possible (sideways)movement while the shot is released, angled trigger blades therefore automatically must cause problems. Why? Because the way the joints of our fingers are usually connected, by pulling the trigger you have a backwards and a sideways movement. And unlike the toz35, where this sideways movement is taken into consideration and adjustable, it's a compromise on any other pistol between those two directions. So, for avoiding bad shots(!), it's the best to have a straight blade in the right distance.

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:15 am

flolo wrote:Dear orionshooter: from your point of view your arguments seem right.
BUT: your point of view is from the wrong direction. It's not about concentration to shoot perfect shots but about avoiding bad shots. You simply can't ( even on international level) always focus to the max, so trying to do anything to avoid bad shots( which really ruin your score) has to be the way to go! This means to get rid of as much as possible (sideways)movement while the shot is released, angled trigger blades therefore automatically must cause problems. Why? Because the way the joints of our fingers are usually connected, by pulling the trigger you have a backwards and a sideways movement. And unlike the toz35, where this sideways movement is taken into consideration and adjustable, it's a compromise on any other pistol between those two directions. So, for avoiding bad shots(!), it's the best to have a straight blade in the right distance.

Once again I will respectfully disagree.

Nothing is AUTOMATIC. Angled blades do not automatically do anything. While angled blades must be used with caution, they dont automatically result in bad shots. Use of any new technique or equiipment set up requires us to objectively observe the effect (good or bad) it has on the shot process. THe tough part is being objective and honest about evaluating what one sees and interpreting the results including cause.

I also dont agree that the mental approach of "avoiding a bad shot" is a good one because it focuses on the negative which only increases stress. I believe positive reinforcement is far more preferable - that is to say concentrating on all of the things we do correctly to execute the perfect shot is far more effective.

flolo · Post by **flolo** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:52 am

Ok, wrong formulation: by avoiding bad shots i was thinking of getting rid of bad shots( by concentration on proper shot execution). It's up to you to reinvent the wheel, but physical forces simply can't be tricked. This means you must compensate the sideways movement by a firmer grip and always at least the same amount of force to compensate. Seems like a lot of fun in competition especially if the stress kicks in. Simply said: if it works for you, do it. I know it doesn't work for me( at least if i want to shoot over 570, and i learned it the hard way).

orionshooter · Post by **orionshooter** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:03 am

flolo wrote:Ok, wrong formulation: by avoiding bad shots i was thinking of getting rid of bad shots( by concentration on proper shot execution). It's up to you to reinvent the wheel, but physical forces simply can't be tricked. This means you must compensate the sideways movement by a firmer grip and always at least the same amount of force to compensate. Seems like a lot of fun in competition especially if the stress kicks in. Simply said: if it works for you, do it. I know it doesn't work for me( at least if i want to shoot over 570, and i learned it the hard way).

Yes - using an angled blade requires a different approach but it may be an easier path for the shooter than continuing to use a non angled (and in some people's view "perfect") trigger that does not fit in the first place.

And I completey agree that physical forces cant be tricked - however they can be harnessed to an advantage if properly used. Recoil is a great example - you cant avoid it but you can certainly use it to help with reacquiring sight alignment.

Almost everything is worth trying.

flolo · Post by **flolo** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:15 am

But, if you have to angle the blade, isn't it the wrong gun for you in the first place?