What you would like to have in your rifle for better results

[yamaskyta]

Hi all

We all wish to get higher scores and we train hard for that. Im wondering what would us get higher results. Please share what you miss or would like to have in your small bore rifles that you think would help achieving better results (please focus on barrel, stock, bolt, and similar parts, lets exclude munition, sights, shooting jackets gloves, tecnique and so on).

Thanks,
yamaskyta

[RobinC]

If there was anything I thought would help I'd have done it a long time ago, sadly the single biggest factor is the shooter.
Good Shooting.
Robin

[RobStubbs]

The most important 2 aspects are time and money. Aligned with that would be access to quality coaches and training facilities.

Rob.

[Turtle28]

Plenty of other things outside your requested scope so,
For me its rifle fit, so stock and balance of stock when barrel fitted,

As this is what will either find natural point of aim or not and the ability to maintain this. Poorly fitted you are muscling the rifle all day very hard work,

I run a cast alloy stock. Its old, nothing flash with original butt plate 1813 style and an offset spacer to suit my set up. And this feels way nicer for me then the new fwb of my mate. FOR ME.

Fore end weight and size also important here for balance as this is the front contact point, has to sit flat and easy in my hand, so a well fitted stock for me is the number one place to start.

Comfort = better scores, which comes from a well fitted stock for YOUR set up.

[bill guinn]

I would like to have the ability to stay in position when loading. Particularily my elbow in prone. I have shot everying imaginable and a martini comes close but its not quite there - and it introduces other problems, so I continue to shoot walther and or anschutz.

Change in my position during a match is the single biggest issue I have.
NO production rifle was ever designed from the ground up for target shooting, let alone for prone. Rifles are still fundementally as they have been for over 100 years. Though stock design has come a long way in the past couple of decades, not much else has.

If you designing, start with a clean sheet of paper and give us something that is the most ergonomic for the positional constraints we have. I want an iphone not a rotary dial fixed line phone from the 50s (aka Anschutz 54)

[yana]

No regular triggerguards. I prefer the stock continuing and functioning as triggerguard. Also, adjustable sight height.(like FWB air) I'm always troubling with lowish sights.

[KennyB]

One of the big debates in the Benchrest world has been over possible accuracy improvements due to the firing pin striking the rim at 6 o'clock rather than 12 o'clock.
The Bleiker has a 6 o'clock firing pin.
I'm led to believe that Anschutz will do one for the 20 series as a special order.

Something that you might want to look into if you're intending on building a better rifle...

Also, an indexed barrel, front locking lugs, reduced slop in the bolt raceway, action tuning (like the M.Werks stock) etc...

K.

[guidolastra]

Most currently used brands of rifles/gear in international competition are designed to do the work. Equipment is indeed important, but I would agree with previous posts : committment, time, practice and coaching will make it possible for good results

[Freepistol]

Back in the 1980s, there were several of us prone shooters who heard about the development of a bore cleaner called "9-be-gone." I don't know what ever became of it.

[Hemmers]

Also, an indexed barrel, front locking lugs, reduced slop in the bolt raceway, action tuning (like the M.Werks stock) etc...

K.

Controversial. I know Martyn Buttery built an indexing rig to do some testing on the Eley range so he could rotate the barrel. AFAIK he couldn't really find any gain to be had. Certainly many of the articles I see show it being "tested" with 5-shot groups outdoors, which statistically mean squat.

I'd like to see some of the indexing proponents demonstrate the performance gains of indexing with 40-shot groups on an indoor 50m range where the results can be shown to be conclusive and repeatable, not outdoors in "good" conditions which realistically don't mean anything. I mean, the theory is sound, but whether in the real world it makes any noticeable difference has yet (AFAIK) to be conclusively and empirically tested on an indoor range in as close to lab conditions as one can get.


As for what would I like? Homing Bullets. Would make life much easier :D


Butt plates have given me a lot of gype. I've struggled to get a nice shape that properly contacts my shoulder all the way round whilst giving me the feeling of security that it's not about to fall out of my shoulder or move as I reload. The HPS Gemini plates are really nice, giving lots of 3D movement. Far more so than the Anschutz offerings.

[KennyB]

Also, an indexed barrel, front locking lugs, reduced slop in the bolt raceway, action tuning (like the M.Werks stock) etc...

K.

Controversial. I know Martyn Buttery built an indexing rig to do some testing on the Eley range so he could rotate the barrel. AFAIK he couldn't really find any gain to be had. Certainly many of the articles I see show it being "tested" with 5-shot groups outdoors, which statistically mean squat.

I'd like to see some of the indexing proponents demonstrate the performance gains of indexing with 40-shot groups on an indoor 50m range where the results can be shown to be conclusive and repeatable, not outdoors in "good" conditions which realistically don't mean anything. I mean, the theory is sound, but whether in the real world it makes any noticeable difference has yet (AFAIK) to be conclusively and empirically tested on an indoor range in as close to lab conditions as one can get.

I agree.

I spoke with Martyn about it at Bisley this year and got some mixed messages about it.
I also know some (whose opinions I respect) who claim to have had positive results and others who've seen no benefit.

For myself, if I ware having a new barrel fitted I'd like to have it indexed with the bore curve in the vertical plane (or 6.30 to 12.30 as I shoot with a cant) so I can stop worrying/wondering about it.
If it can't do any harm, it might do some good, so why not do it regardless.. even if it's just for psychological reasons?

Of course, ideally I'd get a barrel with no bore curvature at all, so indexing it would be meaningless....

[yamaskyta]

Thanks all for your feedback. Please foucs on barrel, bolt and trigger

I´d like to have Eric´s opinion

Thanks

[Eric U]

Honestly, I like what I've got. Today was my first training day after three months off and I managed a 600-51*, with my #2 gun. It was indoors mind you, but it usually takes me a few days to a week to get back in peak form.

Barrel: Shilen
Action: Uptagrafft
Trigger: Anschutz
Stock: Anschutz 1813
Tuner: Uptagrafft

Unfortunately I've been way too busy to make any more actions, so don't even ask. Yes, I think it makes a difference in both ergonomics and accuracy.

I mention the stock because I've either shot 1813 or 1913 stocks since 1983. I did use the first generation of Anschutz aluminum stocks for two years but didn't get consistent results and went back to the wood. Each one I have feels like an old pair of sneakers. They just fit and I'm comfortable with them. You guys who feel the need to try every new thing just remember that you need to get used to your rifle system and that is nearly impossible when you change things all the time.

I believe the tuner gives me just a little more accuracy with less elevation issues.

Eric U

[Roadthing]

As a wise man once told me. Commitment, not equipment. I made a change 2 years ago from a 1813 in a Walther KK300 stock just 1 1/2 years into the sport and felt the need to buy a 2013/2018 got it and spent a lot of time being confused. Im not sure what works and does not work for people, but the more I learn, I am finding less can be more.

Doug

[Marc Orvin]

What would I like to have in my rifle for better results? Eric's trigger finger!!!!

[nockon]

I used to say when shooting archery that the most important part of shooting was the bow to ground interface. I used to get weird looks as if I said:"Flux Capacitor" LOL Then after a few seconds they would realize I was talking about the person holding the bow...

I'm a newbie at rifle shooting but trully believe that the same goes here:"The Rifle to Ground Interface is the most important component in shooting"

If people spent as much time on form and shot execution and mental training as they do shopping they would be amaze at what can be done!

Cheers,

Claude

[Durkee Atwood]

Hi all

We all wish to get higher scores and we train hard for that. Im wondering what would us get higher results. Please share what you miss or would like to have in your small bore rifles that you think would help achieving better results (please focus on barrel, stock, bolt, and similar parts, lets exclude munition, sights, shooting jackets gloves, tecnique and so on).

Thanks,
yamaskyta

This is an interesting thread if you bother to read it properly. We can conclude that all rifles are produced at a price and come close to mass production. This includes the barrel, action and stock. There are adjustments that can be made to the trigger pull and with custom stocks there are all types of adjustment.

I have read many books on accurising rifles from those who say that a floating barrel is more accurate to those who state that the barrel should be bedded throughout the whole length of the stock (perfect contact).

The BSA Martini MKIII Match rifle had a floating barrel and won many championships and is probably more capable of extreme accuracy than most modern weapons that command several thousands of dollars.

The BSA was very front heavy which is ideal to control any shake. Many modern aluminium skeleton stocked rifles are light in comparison and body tremors more evident. I often wonder if this isn't the reason why there are so many add-ons that can be purchased to help control a lighter rifle and to increase sales. Don't underestimate the power of marketing and the fact that world champions have their weapons donated to them. World champions are a different breed of shooter and can put ten shots in the ten with any rifle that is accurate and that would include the BSA.

Because of the versatility of the Anschutz bolt action rifle in that stocks and a whole range of sights and other accessories are available, it is the favoured weapon of the club shooter. However, it is a tool and it is only as good as the person who uses it. But we are in the age of the gadget and Anschutz and other non-British manufacturers moved with the times and identified the aftermarket sales potential.

I am torn between what I know is the most important area to concentrate on as a shooter and what my psychology degree tells me; which is, there is a human need to think that any addition will improve scores. The first is not as easy as it requires mental change. The second is easier because after spending a couple of hundred bucks the mind is aligned to shot better.

Yes, it's psychological and most international athletes and sports people use psychologists to help them. Obviously that psychologist needs to know the sport inside out so that what he says is pertinent. But he also knows that self belief as well as good technique is crucial. That's the difference between an average of 99.8 and 99.9.

Correct coaching is the best way to improve but you really need to do this from the start. Unlearning bad habits is extremely difficult but that is what is required to improve scores. Whether you can afford a sports psychologist is something completely different but you can do a distance learning degree like I did and understand how to realign your mind.

So the best item you can get for your shooting improvement is mental attitude followed very closely by talent.

[Simkovitch]

I'd like to see a rifle with a short bolt and a sharp, snappy trigger.
But not over complicated like the Bleiker system.

Maybe a barrel with front sight rails that can also be used as an indexing for an extension tube.

[TPJones]

Hmmm.

I have a Winchester 52D, and H&R 5200, and an Anschutz. Out of a rest they will all hold the X-ring, I however cannot. I know shooters (personally) that have put Lilja barrels on their 52Ds and H&R 5200s. They all saw an improvement.

I have heardof shooters fitting their Ans with Lilja barrels, they saw an improvement.

1) A better quality barrel will help. I've been led to believe that the highest quality barres with constantly tapered bores will improve precision.

The theory is that a 6 o'clock firing pin will improve consistency of ignition. I only know of two factory rifles that come standard with 6 o'clock pins. They shoot very well indeed. There may be others.

2) I believe a 6 o'clock pin will help. The theory is there.

Perfect stock fit is everything, and it's something we're all after. "Infinitely adjustable" would be great.

3) A stock that can be adjusted to fit YOU.

As for myself, I'm quite happy with my Anschutz, the problems there are mine to solve. I'd like to replace the H&R 4x4 wood block with a real stock someday,(maybe a McGee prone) and yes, a better barrel. The Winchester 52D will never be touched since it is a pristine example of the breed.

A twenty click sight would be highly desirable, and one is in my future-next season. It's been said above, (and I concur) -in most instances, for the rest of us so to speak, the real path to higher scores are quality coaching, quality practice time, a quality facility, and unlimited access to ammunition.

My rifles are ancient, but then, so am I.