TargetTalk

The registration form for the Finnish national championships now for the first time includes a box where you have to enter the expiry date of your AP's cylinder.

This is no problem if I decide to shoot my LP10, but what if I'd like to shoot my CM162EI instead? The only text I can find on the cylinder is:

CM(r)
Morini(r) Competition Arms S.A.
NET: 1.000 Kg / 2.205 lb
AIR: 0.022 Kg / 0.048 lb
Pmax: 300 Bar / 4.351 Psi

I bought the Morini used, and have no idea how old the cylinders are. The gun is the 15 volt version, serial number 15837.

Based on this information, do you have any idea how old the cylinders and/or the gun might be?

We have 155xx in our club, which is a 1998 gun and matches your description.

This is the first time I hear that the expiry date is asked/checked in Europe.

Just shot nationals in Belgium, no verification of expiry date and as far as I know, it is also not checked in France.

Does anybody know if it was checked in another country ?

Yes, in Switzerland. And I've heard that it's an issue in Germany, too.

Wasn't there also an issue with length of expiry as original Morini Cylinders were 20 years and most manufacturers now offer only 10 years?

Tycho wrote:Yes, in Switzerland. And I've heard that it's an issue in Germany, too.

It's a non issue in Germany now - they haven't been checking it this year or last (WC's).

Rob.

A74BEDLM wrote:Wasn't there also an issue with length of expiry as original Morini Cylinders were 20 years and most manufacturers now offer only 10 years?

I've got a feeling, but could be wrong, that the latest Morini cylinders are now 10 years too.

Sounds like you guys with the "twenty year" cylinders are in luck.

I personally think the whole subject is bogus anyway.

it's an issue in the netherlands too.
Due to a few accidents with exploding cylinders the rule is that the the cylinder has to be checked every 10 years.
this checking has to be perfomed by a qualified company.
they add a new date stamp so that th cylinder is valid fot another 10 years.

by the way: the accidents occured in germany.

madmull wrote:it's an issue in the netherlands too.
Due to a few accidents with exploding cylinders the rule is that the the cylinder has to be checked every 10 years.
this checking has to be perfomed by a qualified company.
they add a new date stamp so that th cylinder is valid fot another 10 years.

by the way: the accidents occured in germany.

I'd love to know who's doing the checks and able to verify them for another 10 years. None of the manufacturers that I'm aware of are doing it.

Also the only accidents that I've seen described were due to manufacturing faults and the subject of product recalls.

Rob.

RobStubbs wrote: I'd love to know who's doing the checks and able to verify them for another 10 years. None of the manufacturers that I'm aware of are doing it.

Also the only accidents that I've seen described were due to manufacturing faults and the subject of product recalls.

Rob.

correct, the manufactures don't check them because they love to sell new cilinders.

Stelljes and klingner in germany test the cilinders, it's expensive.
I read that there are companies who check diving equipment, also can do these tests. One guy told me that the test are being performed with water and that he advised me tobuy a new pistol when this was needed with my cilinders.

the problem occured with the older model cilinders (the one with no manometers) it seemed that people where overloading these tubes.

The big "event" was a faulty series of Anschütz air rifle cylinders, which blew up at way less than 200 bar - but instead of acknowledging that, manufacturers were quick to come up with the 10 year - proposal - everything for revenue...

the ten year cost of doing an annual inspection x9 and five year inspection x2) that is required for SCUBA cylinders in the US, and I think also in Europe, would exceed the cost of our airgun cylinders, so this issue is about safety not about revenue for the factory.

nc513 wrote:The registration form for the Finnish national championships now for the first time includes a box where you have to enter the expiry date of your AP's cylinder.

Perhaps just convincing your Natioanal body to not be so pedantic might be a place to start. Ask them to show some evidence that any airgun air cylinder anywhere has ever failed due to age.

madmull wrote:

RobStubbs wrote: Stelljes and klingner in germany test the cilinders, it's expensive.
I read that there are companies who check diving equipment, also can do these tests. One guy told me that the test are being performed with water and that he advised me tobuy a new pistol when this was needed with my cilinders.
.

Dive cylyinders are a totally different proposition and yes they pressure test those with water as I recall. I have no idea how you would go about testing the small cylinders we use, if I needed to use <10 year old cylinders I'd just buy a new one when needed.

Rob.

Dive cylyinders are a totally different proposition and yes they pressure test those with water as I recall. I have no idea how you would go about testing the small cylinders we use, if I needed to use <10 year old cylinders I'd just buy a new one when needed.

The owner of the diving company where we get our club bottles filled was intrigued when I told him of this. He just could not understand why people wanted to make rules for an item that is excluded from the current pressure test regulations! He went on to say that he would be happy to arrange a hydraulic test of an airgun cylinder and supply a test certificate, it would cost around GBP30.

Rutty

Yesterday I was reading the instruction manual for a CA Hammerli 480.

It said to return the cylinder(s) to Hammerli every twenty years for inspection. That does not necessarily (or even probably) mean replacement.

Interesting.

No Hammerli cylinder has ever been good for twenty years, they don't even stock spares anymore for the K1 and K2 - so the problem solves itself :-)

Pure revenue generator. I've never seen anything blow up, not a CO2 (and many of those are 30 years old, which - even at 80 bar - should prove something), no PA and no CA...

So according to Tycho's comment, my Morini's cylinders are probably around 12-13 years old, but I don't really have any way of proving that.

"These are from the late 90's and Morini says their service life is at least 20 years. Can I go shoot now?".

By the way, what date do the manufacturers usually stamp on the cylinders; the manufacturing date or the expiration date?

I would assume that the date on my LP10's cylinders is the manufacturing date.

j-team: The 2012 Finnish nationals might be a bit exceptional; I suspect that the organizers are practising the same procedures they will be using at the European championships in February. The 2013 organizers might choose to use a different strategy, I suppose.

nc513 wrote:...The 2013 organizers might choose to use a different strategy, I suppose.

take a look at http://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.aspx ... ntrols.pdf