Hi,
I am just getting into shooting, and want to eventually get into military rifles, but I thought for the moment I would start with a more modern rifle to learn the sport and then worry about rifles like the Springfield's, K98's etc down the track.
I won't really get a chance to go hunting, so it will be mainly target shooting which is less then 2mins from my house. These are the rifles I have been thinking about at this stage, unless anyone has a better idea. I am also located in Australia in case that has any bearing.
The Anschutz Model 54
Tikka T3 Varmit
Tikka T3 Super Varmit
Still a month away from being able to purchase anything (stupid Australian gun laws) so I am just trying to take as much in as possible.
Great site here guys I hope to learn heaps, and sorry if I bust your balls with the beginner questions but we all got to start somewhere ;)
Rifle Advice Needed
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Other than the fact that they both involve shooting you will find there is a vast difference between vintage service rifles and modern smallbore target rifles.
In the same vein, an Anschutz target rifle and a Tikka don't have much in common. (is the Tikka T3 even available in 22LR?)
Most of the rifle shooters down in the Rifle and Air Rifle section are shooting Anschutz, Walther, Feinwerkbau that is the bulk of them, there are a few other less common rifles out there.
You mention Anschutz Model 54. This actually refers to the action. For many years the Anschutz Match 54 action was THE dominant action in international/olympic rifle shooting. The "54" comes from the fact that the first version of the action was introduced in 1954. Now the Match 54 action has been used in basic "standard" rifles such as the model 1407 from the 1970s to the "free" (read fully adjustable) 1413, 1813,1913,2013.
Especially today, modern target rifles bear little resemblance to their military counterparts. I am not saying they are not a great tool for learning the foundations of precision marksmanship, they are, just VERY different from their military counterparts.
Switching over to the Tikka for a moment, this is a much more traditional rifle. It has a few features on the stock that make it more comfortable to shoot but it is much more a "sling it over the shoulder and head to the field" kind of rifle. As I noted in the beginning, I am not sure the model you mention is available in 22LR. In its element the Tikka would be a fine rifle, it is much more a hunting rifle (hence the name Varmit) or recreational rifle whereas the Anschutz and similar are much more serious competition only type rifles.
If you are positive after a bit you will be moving over to the vintage service rifles only, the the Tikka would be much more closely related to them. If you think you really just want to shoot then a 22 target rifle is a fine thing, easy to get along with and compared to a service rifle much cheaper to feed.
Please note, I am a bit biased here. I have been shooting for about 40 years and while I own both target rifles and service rifles I probably have 200,000 rounds of 22LR and air rifle down range and perhaps 3000 rounds of service rifle (30-06 and 7.62 NATO (Win. 308)) down range.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
'Dude
In the same vein, an Anschutz target rifle and a Tikka don't have much in common. (is the Tikka T3 even available in 22LR?)
Most of the rifle shooters down in the Rifle and Air Rifle section are shooting Anschutz, Walther, Feinwerkbau that is the bulk of them, there are a few other less common rifles out there.
You mention Anschutz Model 54. This actually refers to the action. For many years the Anschutz Match 54 action was THE dominant action in international/olympic rifle shooting. The "54" comes from the fact that the first version of the action was introduced in 1954. Now the Match 54 action has been used in basic "standard" rifles such as the model 1407 from the 1970s to the "free" (read fully adjustable) 1413, 1813,1913,2013.
Especially today, modern target rifles bear little resemblance to their military counterparts. I am not saying they are not a great tool for learning the foundations of precision marksmanship, they are, just VERY different from their military counterparts.
Switching over to the Tikka for a moment, this is a much more traditional rifle. It has a few features on the stock that make it more comfortable to shoot but it is much more a "sling it over the shoulder and head to the field" kind of rifle. As I noted in the beginning, I am not sure the model you mention is available in 22LR. In its element the Tikka would be a fine rifle, it is much more a hunting rifle (hence the name Varmit) or recreational rifle whereas the Anschutz and similar are much more serious competition only type rifles.
If you are positive after a bit you will be moving over to the vintage service rifles only, the the Tikka would be much more closely related to them. If you think you really just want to shoot then a 22 target rifle is a fine thing, easy to get along with and compared to a service rifle much cheaper to feed.
Please note, I am a bit biased here. I have been shooting for about 40 years and while I own both target rifles and service rifles I probably have 200,000 rounds of 22LR and air rifle down range and perhaps 3000 rounds of service rifle (30-06 and 7.62 NATO (Win. 308)) down range.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
'Dude
-
tenpointnine
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:20 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
Anschutz 54
Great advice 'Dude, but why does everyone forget the 16 series (with the 'X' suffix after the serial number)?
Or did you not want to complicate things any further?!
Cheers
Walter
Or did you not want to complicate things any further?!
Cheers
Walter
tenpoint'
I did not mention the 16xx series because it never officially existed. Not in the US at least. Perhaps in Europe marketed a 16xx but I have no knowledge of that. When the first "cone back" bolts came out about 1978 this was the start of the transition to 18xx, at that time the rifles were still marketed as 14xx although the bolt and trigger assembly were clearly different.
As you noted, these transition rifles had a somewhat distinct X on the end of the serial number.
While Anschutz never marketed a 16xx series the smallbore community has dubbed rifles from this transition period with the 16xx moniker to differentiate them from a true 14xx with the square back or wing bolt.
My memory is a bit fuzzy on the exact length of the period now but I think the X series serial numbers were around for 78 and 79 then Anschutz went to the official 18xx designation.
Of course I could just say the short answer is that I did not mention a 16xx because I don't really think about them really existing.
So that my story, and I sticking to it!!! : )
Cheers,
'Dude
I did not mention the 16xx series because it never officially existed. Not in the US at least. Perhaps in Europe marketed a 16xx but I have no knowledge of that. When the first "cone back" bolts came out about 1978 this was the start of the transition to 18xx, at that time the rifles were still marketed as 14xx although the bolt and trigger assembly were clearly different.
As you noted, these transition rifles had a somewhat distinct X on the end of the serial number.
While Anschutz never marketed a 16xx series the smallbore community has dubbed rifles from this transition period with the 16xx moniker to differentiate them from a true 14xx with the square back or wing bolt.
My memory is a bit fuzzy on the exact length of the period now but I think the X series serial numbers were around for 78 and 79 then Anschutz went to the official 18xx designation.
Of course I could just say the short answer is that I did not mention a 16xx because I don't really think about them really existing.
So that my story, and I sticking to it!!! : )
Cheers,
'Dude
-
proneshooter
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:09 pm
- Location: Charleston, S.C.
proneshooter,
Ohh, my bad, I was not trying to imply that the X series serial numbers were somehow limited in the US. They are, as Anschutz go, reasonably common, I have two myself and know of one more. My guess is that for the years Anschutz was putting the X on the end of the serial number they imported a normal number into the US, however many that would be.
What you say about the bolt being different is very true. The location of the catch on the firing pin and the release lever in the trigger assembly are different from the true 18xx rifles.
As a side note, the X serial numbers tended to be very nice barrels.
Cheers,
'Dude
Ohh, my bad, I was not trying to imply that the X series serial numbers were somehow limited in the US. They are, as Anschutz go, reasonably common, I have two myself and know of one more. My guess is that for the years Anschutz was putting the X on the end of the serial number they imported a normal number into the US, however many that would be.
What you say about the bolt being different is very true. The location of the catch on the firing pin and the release lever in the trigger assembly are different from the true 18xx rifles.
As a side note, the X serial numbers tended to be very nice barrels.
Cheers,
'Dude
Thanks for the advice guys, as you can tell I am a complete novice so I am trying to take in as much info as I can, but what you are saying makes a lot of sense.
I understand that military rifles might be a different kettle of fish, but my reason for starting with something more modern was more about ease of getting the rifle and parts if the 'novice' does something I shouldn't.
For years I kept reptiles, and there were certain species that you would advise a newbie to get as if the newbie made a mistake the animal could handle and you wouldn't kill it, I was coming at this with a similar approach if that makes sense?
Would there be anything else I should be looking at? or just stick with what I have mentioned?
cheers, and thanks again for the help
I understand that military rifles might be a different kettle of fish, but my reason for starting with something more modern was more about ease of getting the rifle and parts if the 'novice' does something I shouldn't.
For years I kept reptiles, and there were certain species that you would advise a newbie to get as if the newbie made a mistake the animal could handle and you wouldn't kill it, I was coming at this with a similar approach if that makes sense?
Would there be anything else I should be looking at? or just stick with what I have mentioned?
cheers, and thanks again for the help
joebyrne,
Looking at your last two posts, a few things here:
Parts availability varies from location to location. I am not sure about firearm parts in Australia. In the US I have a pretty easy time getting parts for vintage service rifles, for some of my target rifles, I have to wait.
It could be completely opposite down under.
I will also say that with parts considerations you would want to avoid an Anschutz with an X serial number. While a rarity if something does go wrong in with the trigger or bolt Anschutz makes you upgrade to the true 18xx geometries. I don't know about bolt and trigger parts for the older 14xx series as they were built like tanks and I have never seen anything past a broken firing pin go wrong with them.
As for the CZ, again the higher line CZ tend to be fine guns but they are patterned after the service rifle model. A bit lighter, built more for carrying in the field. There is certainly no reason you could not take a CZ to the range and learn the basics of shooting with one. Could you enter an international style tournament and compete against the Anschutz, Walthers and FWBs... in a word, no. But, you can still take one the to range and have a bunch of fun with it.
Similar with the Marlin's. I think it is the Marlin 2000 that is the entry level target rifle. At least in the US it is the model 2000. The stock is definitely more geared to competitive target shooting. (true pistol grip, adjustable butt, full length rail in the forend) It is intended for juniors and might be on the light side for an adult. Compared to a top end target rifle, the barrels are not as nice, the triggers are not as nice, the stock is not as nice... etc... They are serviceable but are designed to get people started, not go to the Olympics. OK, not an Anschutz but you can still take one to the range and have bunch of fun with it.
Another rifle that gets a bunch of play on this forum is the Izhmash CM-2 Target rifle. It is Russian, in the US they can be gotten, full up ready to shoot for the neightborhood of $600US. Folks who have them speak highly of them and say you get lots of gun for the dollar. The drawback is that apparently they won't take the standard European accessories that tend to universally fit the "big three" and most other target rifles. Not a super big deal when you are just getting started. Still, you can have a bunch of fun and really, that is the point to all of this.
Cheers,
'Dude
Looking at your last two posts, a few things here:
Parts availability varies from location to location. I am not sure about firearm parts in Australia. In the US I have a pretty easy time getting parts for vintage service rifles, for some of my target rifles, I have to wait.
It could be completely opposite down under.
I will also say that with parts considerations you would want to avoid an Anschutz with an X serial number. While a rarity if something does go wrong in with the trigger or bolt Anschutz makes you upgrade to the true 18xx geometries. I don't know about bolt and trigger parts for the older 14xx series as they were built like tanks and I have never seen anything past a broken firing pin go wrong with them.
As for the CZ, again the higher line CZ tend to be fine guns but they are patterned after the service rifle model. A bit lighter, built more for carrying in the field. There is certainly no reason you could not take a CZ to the range and learn the basics of shooting with one. Could you enter an international style tournament and compete against the Anschutz, Walthers and FWBs... in a word, no. But, you can still take one the to range and have a bunch of fun with it.
Similar with the Marlin's. I think it is the Marlin 2000 that is the entry level target rifle. At least in the US it is the model 2000. The stock is definitely more geared to competitive target shooting. (true pistol grip, adjustable butt, full length rail in the forend) It is intended for juniors and might be on the light side for an adult. Compared to a top end target rifle, the barrels are not as nice, the triggers are not as nice, the stock is not as nice... etc... They are serviceable but are designed to get people started, not go to the Olympics. OK, not an Anschutz but you can still take one to the range and have bunch of fun with it.
Another rifle that gets a bunch of play on this forum is the Izhmash CM-2 Target rifle. It is Russian, in the US they can be gotten, full up ready to shoot for the neightborhood of $600US. Folks who have them speak highly of them and say you get lots of gun for the dollar. The drawback is that apparently they won't take the standard European accessories that tend to universally fit the "big three" and most other target rifles. Not a super big deal when you are just getting started. Still, you can have a bunch of fun and really, that is the point to all of this.
Cheers,
'Dude
thanks heaps for your help, I think having a chat to some local gun shops and down at the ranges will help answer some supply questions to see what is about in this Country.
I also just joined an Australian forum so I will see what I can dig up on there as well.
Thanks for your help it is greatly appreciated.
cheers
I also just joined an Australian forum so I will see what I can dig up on there as well.
Thanks for your help it is greatly appreciated.
cheers