10 meters - from what to what??

[philip_T]

Sorry about this basic question, but I have seen a couple variations.
The 10 meter PISTOL range is from the face of the target to
Where?
Toe line ( back edge of the box)? Arm and barrel can cross 10m line.

Front of the box which is one meter wide, so the end of the
barrel will not cross the line? Effective toe line then at 11 meters.

I thought it was a toe line and the arm could extend forward, but I have
seen also that no part of the shooter or gun may extend over the line.

Reference?

[philip_T]

I guess the correct range is ten meters from the tgt face to the firing line,
which has a table behind it so that no part of the extended gun is
closer than 10 meters?

[ColinC]

Nope.
10m from target to shooting line over which you cannot place your foot. The bench is in front of the line.

[Spencer]

Reference?

6.3.8.4 The firing line must be clearly marked. The range distance must
be measured from the target line to the edge of the firing line
nearest to the shooter. The use of a board as a firing line is not
permitted. The competitor‟s foot or, in the prone position the
competitior‟s elbow may not be placed on or in front of the firing
line.

[madmax]

Spencer
I noticed at the last Woprld Cup at SISC in Sydney, that most of the rapid fire shooters had their foot hard up against the table. How does this fit in with the rules?

[Spencer]

Spencer
I noticed at the last Woprld Cup at SISC in Sydney, that most of the rapid fire shooters had their foot hard up against the table. How does this fit in with the rules?

SISC range was built for the 2000 Olympics: i.e. before the 'use of a board as a firing line is not permitted' was introduced. Changing the position of the 25 m benches is not simple - a whack of the cabling and big transformers are in the way.

The TD approved the existing 25 m bench positions under 6.3.5.1.1

[j-team]

The use of a board as a firing line is not
permitted.

What's the purpose of this rule?

I can't figure how it would make any difference if a shooters toe touched a board. It's hardly going to give an advantage is it. Perhaps in a prone event, the elbow could rest on top of the board, but that only happens on 50m ranges. On 10m and 25m ranges all shooting is done from the standing position.

The use of a board for a firing line would make it easier for jury to know that everyone is behind the line. No more leaning forward to see who has their toe over the line.

Is is just another case of rules for the sake of rules?

[j-team]

SISC range was built for the 2000 Olympics: i.e. before the 'use of a board as a firing line is not permitted' was introduced. Changing the position of the 25 m benches is not simple - a whack of the cabling and big transformers are in the way.

Unbolt the targets and move them slightly closer. Then paint a line on the ground the same distance behind the bench.

[philip_T]

10 meters from the target line to the shooters side of the firing line.
If my forward foot is behind this line then my arm will extend forward of the 10m line.
And my normally placed table can also straddle
or be foward of this line. Correct?
Thanks all !

[Jack Milchanowski]

Yes, yes, no. Table should not straddle. For practice you could do what you wish.
I hope the following helps visualize the set up.
Come see us in the woods.
Jack



6.3.15 Range and Firing Point Standards for 10 m Ranges
6.3.15.1 The firing point must be a minimum of 1 m wide.
6.3.15.2 The range must be equipped according to Rule 6.3.12 with a bench or stand, a chair or stool and, if paper targets are used, with the equipment for the Register Keeper.
6.3.15.2.1 The nearest edge of the bench or stand must be placed 10 cm forward of the 10 m Firing line.
6.3.15.3 10 m ranges must be equipped with electric-mechanical target carriers or changers, or Electronic Scoring Targets.
USA
6.3.15.3A USA Shooting sanctioned competitions may be shot on ranges with electric or manual target carriers or fixed multiple bull targets adjustable for height.
6.3.15.4 Indoor 10 m ranges must have artificial illumination providing the necessary amount of light without glare or distracting shadows on the targets or firing points. The entire area must be evenly illuminated with no less than 300 lux. Targets must be illuminated evenly with no less than 1500 lux. The background area behind the targets must be a non-reflecting, light even neutral color. If due to the request from the media, the lighting on the firing points has to be increased, then the light on the targets must be appropriately increased.
USA
6.3.15.4A At USA Shooting sanctioned competitions the targets must be illuminated evenly with no less than 1000 lux. They may have a background area behind the targets that is not a non-reflecting, light even neutral color.
6.3.15.4.1 Measuring of the target illumination (minimum 1500 lux) must be done with the measuring device held at the level of the target and pointed toward the firing point (A).
6.3.15.4.2 Measuring general range illumination (a minimum of 300 lux):
The measuring device must be held at the firing point (B1) and midway between the firing point and the target line (B2) with the device directed toward the ceiling illumination (see Figure).


6.3.15.4.3 see attached

[orionshooter]

The use of a board as a firing line is not
permitted.

What's the purpose of this rule?

Is is just another case of rules for the sake of rules?

Whether a board provides an advantage is speculative.....it could. I believe the rule's purpose is consistency in range design. If one range has it...they should all have it.

[j-team]

The use of a board as a firing line is not
permitted.

What's the purpose of this rule?

Is is just another case of rules for the sake of rules?

Whether a board provides an advantage is speculative.....it could. I believe the rule's purpose is consistency in range design. If one range has it...they should all have it.

The Sydney example shoots this down though as it was build before the rule (like most ranges) and it has it has do some other ranges) and others don't. They have been allowed to keep it for reasons described above by Spencer, therefore current ranges are not consistent.

On any given day at any given range all shooters at that event will be under the same conditions, board or no board, so why bother with the rule? How does it benefit ISSF shooting, that's my question.

Would the sky fall if that rule was deleted? No it wouldn't, ISSF shooting would carry on and no one would care the rule was gone.

[orionshooter]

The use of a board as a firing line is not
permitted.

What's the purpose of this rule?

Is is just another case of rules for the sake of rules?

Whether a board provides an advantage is speculative.....it could. I believe the rule's purpose is consistency in range design. If one range has it...they should all have it.

The Sydney example shoots this down though as it was build before the rule (like most ranges).

When Sydney was built some ranges had boards and some ranges did not. The rule now makes sure that NONE OF THEM HAVE IT. Makes perfect sense and symmetry. I wont argue that some rules make no sense.....just that this one does.

[j-team]

The rule now makes sure that NONE OF THEM HAVE IT.

THE SYDNEY RANGE DOES HAVE IT!

[orionshooter]

Jeez OK. I believe you. THE BOTTOM LINE THOUGH IS THAT IT CANNOT BE USED BECAUSE IT'S A RULES VIOLATION AND THE RULE MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

[j-team]

Jeez OK. I believe you. THE BOTTOM LINE THOUGH IS THAT IT CANNOT BE USED BECAUSE IT'S A RULES VIOLATION AND THE RULE MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

They hold ISSF World Cups there... World records can be set there, MQS scores can be shot there, Olympic quotas can be gained there.

[David Levene]

I hope the following helps visualize the set up.

Those rules are interesting Jack. Is that rule book still in use in the US.

The ISSF replaced it 01/01/2009, with a 2nd printing 01/01/2010 and various amendments since then.

[FredB]

When Sydney was built some ranges had boards and some ranges did not. The rule now makes sure that NONE OF THEM HAVE IT.

I took this to mean the rule insures that no ranges will be built IN THE FUTURE with boards. If range uniformity in this respect is desired, then such a rule is necessary to ensure all future-built ranges are uniform in this area. As older non-conforming ranges are modified or closed, all ranges will eventually be uniform. (However I don't really understand why this is an issue at all.)

FredB

[Jack Milchanowski]

"Those rules are interesting Jack. Is that rule book still in use in the US"

David, No they are not the current rules. I simply had them available on my computer and really just wanted to show the target, table, shooting line positition and measurements. I and the original poster could have looked up the current rules-I was just trying to give him a visual. I should have simply left off the rules portion. I was saving time and being a little lazy.

Come see us in the woods.
Jack

[philip_T]

A very good picture. I really did try to look up the rules but lost
it somewhere. Very definitive.
I suppose the board could cause a trip or misfire if standing,
or possibly be a steadyness aid?
Now I know for sure.