Hold...hold...hold

[Dev]

After blasting through 60 scoring shots in one hour, I found that I have got stuck at a score that doesn't get better than 89 or 85, depending on when one squeezed off a five. Ever since I have gone into a deconstruct the shot mode, so now my practise is to shoot less pellets and slow down my shooting. While going through this exercise a few days ago, I found that my hand did a strange upward or sideways movement when I was shooting the fourth detail of ten shots. Since I was very alert about the trigger squeeze, I isolated the problem to this whole hand movement.
This lead me to the deduction that it was my tired hand and thereby my hold which contributed the last two 7's. Before this till last month, I was holding a two liter water bottle up for say 15 seconds, whenever I remembered to do so during work.
This had really helped me to stay in my holding area for a good seven or eight seconds and shoot some really nice tens. I had stopped doing the holding exercise assuming that my muscles were now suitably trained and had started shooting about eighty scoring shots every alternate day at home.
My theory was that this would help overall, as it had trigger work, plus hold, plus time management. But it has obviously not been so, as my quivering arm demonstrated.
My question is doesn't the hold get fixed after doing holding practice for a while or is it something that has to be worked on consistently?

Apologies for the long post but I needed to explain what I have been attempting. What do you gents think?

Regards,

Dev

[david alaways]

Its morning and im not thinking well. You lost me somewhere.Thats where my answer comes from " I THINK" "You are thinking to much" its a BIG distraction! Sometimes when your not thinking you do your best work.

[RobStubbs]

As David says it's difficult and deconstructing the shot process can lead to erroneous assumptions as to the errors.

Forget score is the very first thing. Just work on getting the shot process consistent and focus on the sights. I often get shooters to turn the card around and then just shoot it. With no black they can watch the sights better and there's no score distraction.

Once you've got the process ingrained and consistent and the triggering is smooth then you can move on. But remember strings are unimportant - you're just shooting 1 shot at a time so make each one as technically good as it can be. And don't rush it, there's no magical number of shots you should be shooting each day - far better 10 or 20 good shots than 80 poor ones.

Rob.

[Freepistol]

. . . . .My question is doesn't the hold get fixed after doing holding practice for a while or is it something that has to be worked on consistently?
. . . .
Regards,

Dev

The hold will degrade if not in training. Shooting is a sport, like most sports, where performance will suffer if one does not continually train. In order to have a hold that will be stable for several seconds, it helps to train your arm to hold much longer than that. One never "arrives" at the top of the shooting world and then stays there with no more training effort.

[Brian M]

The hold will degrade if not in training. Shooting is a sport, like most sports, where performance will suffer if one does not continually train. In order to have a hold that will be stable for several seconds, it helps to train your arm to hold much longer than that. One never "arrives" at the top of the shooting world and then stays there with no more training effort.

But at the same time, the Physical aspect is such a pathetically small percent of the overall picture. All we have is anecdotal evidence for anything shooting related, but I stopped shooting in May of 2009 where I spent the summer in Juneau, AK and didn't want to haul my pistol up there, then moved to Denver in September of '09, bought a house and fixed it up into spring '10 and didn't bother picking up my pistol again until October of '10. I "practiced" about 3 times, maybe 60 minutes total, before going down to the OTC for a monthly match just to get back into shooting. I shot a 549 in that match, which was roughly my personal best in a match to that point. I had Massive muscle fatigue during the match, and for 3 days after I was sore. My hold was (and is still) no where near as good as it was when I stopped in 2009. I was certainly in worse physical shape than the OP is currently.

It's the mind that makes the Biggest difference. Mental game is the weakest link on dang near every shooter out there in the world, working on physical aspects will have precious little. Best to focus on the area with the largest potential for gain. Learning to get out of my own way, I've managed to push my personal best match score to 561. I'm still working on achieving 'Flow' consistently, as I know that physically holding the pistol isn't the issue. Pulling the trigger without disrupting the sights isn't an issue. Following through isn't an issue. Doing those without thinking about how much I want a "string" of 100, or that I'm on track to top my personal best 20-shot string of 198... THAT is the issue. The instant those thoughts pop into my head and I can't 'erase' them is the instant I've blown it. Since the OP is concerned about breaking 90, he's thinking about the wrong thing and sabotaging himself mentally.

Brian

[ronpistolero]

Hi Brian,

Very mature thoughts on the shot process. I have been shooting since the early 1980s and those are the goals I have yet to achieve completely. Needless to say I agree that it is not limited to physical training to achieve a better performance (as evidenced by the score), though of course, being in good shape is a contributing factor. A pseudo athlete/athlete wanna be I truly am.

In similar light, I remember having gone to at least 2 of our local matches totally unprepared; as in I get to the range not knowing there's a match (I don't read announcements of dates of matches). I finish my latte while at the parking lot and get a surprise when upon entering the range when some officials would ask if I'd like to join even if the match had begun its 10 minute preparation time. I guess I am more inclined to focus more then and not hope for anything else hence I tend to enjoy the game rather than "compete". I get into the 550's in those occasions yet sometimes struggle when I consciously prepare for a match and "think" about the process.

Just my two cents of thoughts.

You can do it Dev!

[Dev]

Thank you gentlemen. I suspected it is the mind because I was meditating on my shooting and mentally going through my various competitions. Then I remembered when once some time in 1998 or so, I went to a match after recovering from a viral fever. I went and shot because my wife said just do it. Now I see the certificate and realise that even then with less training and all I shot a 86% score.
You are all amazing and have narrowed it down to an all encompassing problem, the mind. By the way I shot a nice group yesterday after the first string of twenty sighters. On the second set I tore up the nine and ten ring with two eights. After that I was satisfied enough to put the pistol away.
I think as in life, the fear of success has more to do with it.

Regards,

Dev

[ColinC]

I agree with Brian here. The mental aspect of shooting, to clear the head of random thoughts, is in my opinion the hardest thing to master. We have all read much about the correct stance, hold, sight picture etc etc. Most of us with a few years experience could shoot 10's much more often if there wasn't a mental aspect to shooting.

So how do you train the mind to exclude random thoughts?

I read once that you close your eyes and imagine drawing the alphabet, letter by letter on a blackboard or whiteboard. Every time a random though such as "Gee, I have never got this far before" or "Next time I'll try capital letters", comes into your mind, you have failed and need to go back to the start.

I tried it for a while and it seems to help. Maybe I'll have to start again. What font will I choose??

[RobStubbs]

So how do you train the mind to exclude random thoughts?

One of the keys to the above is understanding how the conscious mind works. You can only think of one thing at a time so the 'trick' is to make the thought what you want it to be in shooting terms. Some people work on a trigger word, others occupy their mind thinking 'sights' or visualising the perfect sight picture. Whatever option you choose you need to train it and make it part of you shooting routine, all the time - it will fail you if you don't train it because you need to go for a consistent approach.

Drills as mentioned by Colin above can help some people but you need to use that as a tool first and then switch to the shooting keyword or image.

Rob.

[Dev]

I was wondering about what to do when Colin and Rob came up with a training technique. Can't thank all of you enough.

Warm Regards,

Dev

[lastman]

So how do you train the mind to exclude random thoughts?

You don't.

Random thoughts will always pop into your head. If you start chastising yourself for thinking about erroneous things all you will do is cause more of them to pop up, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Ignore them, if you feel that your mind is not switched on, then switch it on. If you find this is too difficult, you are probably fatigued and need a rest.

Good luck

[mika]

Random thoughts will always pop into your head.

Yes! My problem, lately when trying RF, has been random THINGS (usually .22 cases) popping into my head. This is really a technical problem related to the range, the lane separators are hard plastic and the cases bounce off them very hard. Anyway, this is a major distraction to me, regardless of the cap and glasses.

If you start chastising yourself for thinking about erroneous things all you will do is cause more of them to pop up, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So true. Even with the technical issues like the one above, the real problem is stopping to think about them. For me, it's very difficult to regain the concentration after such an event, and the same holds for shooter errors as a distraction. One really bad shot, and I have hard time doing much better with the next one. Of course, it's different when you have less than a second between the shots. But for me, even the slow fire in SP or CF suffers a bit from the same.

Mika

[jackh]

One of the challenges in the shooting game is to find the right words to describe the shot to others. I think the highest state of the good shot is to just see or feel it happen. When you use one word in active thought, like "trigger" or "sight", you are almost there. A phrase of more words in thought is less close. A thought on breathing or what your body core is doing removes you from the shot even more. I think Ed Hall is close with his expressing to "observe" the shot.

But using such words or thoughts is a necessary part of the process in learning, training and practicing the making of the shot.

[Russ]

One of the challenges in the shooting game is to find the right words to describe the shot to others. I think the highest state of the good shot is to just see or feel it happen. When you use one word in active thought, like "trigger" or "sight", you are almost there. A phrase of more words in thought is less close. A thought on breathing or what your body core is doing removes you from the shot even more. I think Ed Hall is close with his expressing to "observe" the shot.

But using such words or thoughts is a necessary part of the process in learning, training and practicing the making of the shot.

It is a great observation: “to find the right words to describe the shot”.

Our words are the product of our thoughts, our thoughts are the products of our perception, our perception is the program language to communicate with our subconscious level. If we can articulate correctly with our subconscious level in simple and correct words, we can then solve this puzzle. ;)

[david alaways]

Ive been shooting since 2007 with an AP. Ive shot enough rounds that most of my shots are 10s or better (99% r 9.5 or better) A thought I have is .. The good (AA) shooters dont think about hold or much else unless that % goes down. Then they find the problem fix it and go back to not thinking..... A problem that I have is explaining to others how to shoot at their level. It could be that they r shooting at that level because they r thinking to much ...BUT because of their level they r unable to shoot with out thinking (UNDERSTAND THAT ONE ) I was trying to teach a young boy to swing a bat the other day (the bat was to big ,that was one problem) I was giving him all these things to think about ,it was way to much info (my son is a college ball player and thats what Im use too) coaching him on a college level wasnt doing him any good.So we just hit someballs and made it fun(level one) . When I tell you not to think Im coaching you at my level and maybe you dont understand or you just cant do it. That kid will be playing highschool ball someday and hopefully along the way he will have had alot of fun learning..... PS not all the kids make the team...

[jackh]

One of the challenges in the shooting game is to find the right words to describe the shot to others. I think the highest state of the good shot is to just see or feel it happen. When you use one word in active thought, like "trigger" or "sight", you are almost there. A phrase of more words in thought is less close. A thought on breathing or what your body core is doing removes you from the shot even more. I think Ed Hall is close with his expressing to "observe" the shot.

But using such words or thoughts is a necessary part of the process in learning, training and practicing the making of the shot.

It is great observation “is to find the right words to describe the shot”.

Our words are the product of our thoughts, our thoughts is the product of our perceptions, our perceptions is program language to communicate with our subconscious level. If we can articulate correctly with our subconscious level in simple and correct words we can solve this puzzle. ;)

The physical must be very simple as well. There should be one key thought or word to set the stance to where it can be felt to be good, and then out of any active thought in the mind. Much learning, training and practice is needed to discover the phrases and active thoughts, and then the one word or thought about how you stand still.

It is hard enough to describe the shot to one's self, let alone to another.

[Brian M]

It is hard enough to describe the shot to one's self, let alone to another.

But talk about a way to INSTANTLY improve your shooting. My scores jumped when I started helping with our local PPP program. And that's teaching kids the most basic of information.

It's a whole new world when you analyze what you do to produce a good shot in an effort to teach a new shooter, and especially a junior. You'd think there would be an abundance of coaches out there, but maybe the "secret" is under-appreciated (or unknown)?

[Russ]

One of the challenges in the shooting game is to find the right words to describe the shot to others. I think the highest state of the good shot is to just see or feel it happen. When you use one word in active thought, like "trigger" or "sight", you are almost there. A phrase of more words in thought is less close. A thought on breathing or what your body core is doing removes you from the shot even more. I think Ed Hall is close with his expressing to "observe" the shot.

But using such words or thoughts is a necessary part of the process in learning, training and practicing the making of the shot.

It is great observation “is to find the right words to describe the shot”.

Our words are the product of our thoughts, our thoughts is the product of our perceptions, our perceptions is program language to communicate with our subconscious level. If we can articulate correctly with our subconscious level in simple and correct words we can solve this puzzle. ;)

The physical must be very simple as well. There should be one key thought or word to set the stance to where it can be felt to be good, and then out of any active thought in the mind. Much learning, training and practice is needed to discover the phrases and active thoughts, and then the one word or thought about how you stand still.

It is hard enough to describe the shot to one's self, let alone to another.

There should be one key thought or word to set the stance to where it can be felt to be good

There is one key word to describe the stance and concept at the same time.

[Russ]

It is hard enough to describe the shot to one's self, let alone to another.

But talk about a way to INSTANTLY improve your shooting. My scores jumped when I started helping with our local PPP program. And that's teaching kids the most basic of information.

It's a whole new world when you analyze what you do to produce a good shot in an effort to teach a new shooter, and especially a junior. You'd think there would be an abundance of coaches out there, but maybe the "secret" is under-appreciated (or unknown)?

This is also a great concept to learn by the use of the teaching approach. You are forced to read the basics of fundamentals, and to articulate them to your students in different ways, before there will be a pure and clear understanding for both of participants.

[jackh]

There is one key word to describe the stance and concept at the same time.

And that word is ....????