TargetTalk

Hi,

Just wondering what you guys would do in this situation?

Several shooters who are competing at a "sanctioned" match, stand up after scoring is completed (paper targets) and approach the bench.

The caller and register keeper have just walked behind the firing line.
One competitor reached forward to pick up a screw driver (to change sights when LOAD called), while another reaches toward his timer to hit "Start" button ready for the 1min load time.

RO then decides to tear into competirots for being too eager to stand up and touch equipment, play with "magazines" and not wait for the command to LOAD. No one had touched a gun or magazine as accused.

After coping an earfull, the RO gives the LOAD command, we shoot and all have a bad series (very bad compared to first 4 series).

What would be a polite way to tell the RO to get @#$*&% and to read the rules before yelling at competitors and disrupting out preperation for the next series.

Basically a fun (but serious) match was ruined by this RO. How would you handle it?

Cheers

In a private area, tell him just what you told us. That's about all you can do.

That said, were there people down range prior to this? If so you were probably told to make your guns safe and stand back from the line. If that is the case unless the RO told the shooters to approach the line, you guys were most likely at fault, at least thats how all the ranges around here run and how I've run matches. That said there is no need to be a jerk about it, I've had people approach the line and I basically just tell them to stand back until they are told to go forward, no need to yell.

Thanks for your feedback Richard.

After the series was shot, we made it "very vocal" we were not happy, no need for a private area to share our thoughts on the issue.

As for people down the line, no, they had cleared the range andseated when we approached the bench.

Cheers

As a shooter, a sometimes range officer, and former manager , I try to treat people the way I like to be treated. If everyone makes a big public stink about it usually the guy will just feel attacked and dig in his heels. Thats why I prefer the private shall we say correction, you calmly describe the behaviour that you didn't like and why and how you would have preferred it had been handled. Usually works better the guy can look at it as a learning opportunity and doesn't loose face.


Then again if the guy is just an ass well I can go that route too.

No-one should have approached the bench until 'load' was called.

Still, the RO could have been more reasonable about it.

JamesH wrote:No-one should have approached the bench until 'load' was called.

Unless there were special local safety rules, which should have been notified to the competitors, the ISSF rules only prohibit touching the gun or magazine. You certainly don't need to stand back from the bench or avoid touching other items of your equipment.

brakarzac wrote:...at a "sanctioned" match...

1/ what competition?
2/ what event?
3/ did you inform the presiding judge/s?

Spencer (my backyard)

Spencer wrote:

brakarzac wrote:...at a "sanctioned" match...

1/ what competition?
2/ what event?
3/ did you inform the presiding judge/s?

Spencer (my backyard)

Hi Spencer,

1/ ACT Titles
2/ Centrefire (RF stage)
3/ the judge was informed and the RO was spoken to by the judge. The RO still claimed he was right in his actions.

The issue was discussed further off range I understand, but I wasnt there.

Cheers

For the non-Australians:
- this occured at a locally sanctioned competition, not an ISSF-sanctioned competition
- it is accepted local practice to not touch anything on the bench until the RO gives the next command LOAD
- in post-event consultation, the shooter who was spoken to agreed he was in the wrong and the RO was advised to be a bit gentler (the Range Officer had been on that range section for three days, virtually non-stop)


for the original poster:
- the procedure if you think you have been disturbed is to protest under 6.11.9 and/or 6.15.2.3.
- if you do not want to put in a formal protest, there is always an aproach to me - and I do follow up (as in this case). A questionable alternative procedure as your first step being to to post the matter on an international forum.

There will be distubances; there will be target failures; there will be problems with guns and ammunition; there will be glitches with range officials and competition organizers; there are any number of shooters (not only in Australia) who will use 'gamesmanship'. The 'trick' is to develop coping mechanisms; not all that easy for most of us, but essential for a competition shooter.

Spencer Tweedie
National Referee Council Director, Pistol Australia Inc.

brakarzac wrote:

Basically a fun (but serious) match was ruined by this RO. How would you handle it?

Cheers

This is easy.

Take a tablespoon of concrete so you can harden up a bit!

Seriously... all kinds of things happen on the range. You need to be able to put them out of your mind and move on. If you are unable to do that then you need to claim a distraction as Spencer outlined.

In the story you outlined the shooters were at fault and deserved what they got. If you can't handle a distraction then you've got more problems than that.

Good luck

David Levene wrote:

JamesH wrote:No-one should have approached the bench until 'load' was called.

the ISSF rules only prohibit touching the gun or magazine. You certainly don't need to stand back from the bench or avoid touching other items of your equipment.

Thank you David,

That is correct and was mentioned to the RO by the judge on the range.
Which is why we were not happy at the reaction by the RO who should know the rules.

All the clubs I've been to in Aus prohibit anyone approaching the benches, there is usually a safety line, until 'Range Clear' and 'Load' have been called. Step over it and you'll be 'spoken to' at least.

Any competitor should read up on local range rules before shooting, IIRC somewhere in the ISSF rules it says additional safety rules may be imposed by the local range.

Some ranges have safety footprints which prohibit you from aiming above the target, some have adjustable baffles which have to be adjusted in a particular way, some require safety flags in the breach etc, ISSF rules don't take precedence.

JamesH wrote:All the clubs I've been to in Aus prohibit anyone approaching the benches, there is usually a safety line, until 'Range Clear' and 'Load' have been called. Step over it and you'll be 'spoken to' at least.

Any competitor should read up on local range rules before shooting, IIRC somewhere in the ISSF rules it says additional safety rules may be imposed by the local range.

Some ranges have safety footprints which prohibit you from aiming above the target, some have adjustable baffles which have to be adjusted in a particular way, some require safety flags in the breach etc, ISSF rules don't take precedence.

Having shot at several state titles & nationals plus open and zone shoots, no one has ever stopped me or my fellow shooters from doing this before.

I have shot at ranges from Yarra up the coast to Brisbane, inland to Orange and as far north as Darwin. All without problems.

JamesH wrote:....IIRC somewhere in the ISSF rules it says additional safety rules may be imposed by the local range.

Indeed it does, and rightly so.

It also says however "Juries, Range officials, team officials and shooters must be advised of any special regulations."

I had a situation like this occur at Camp Perry in July. One of the line officers (a woman) said something really rude to me. The tone of voice, for the infraction of handing my score card in 15 seconds late, made me think that she had been a drill Sgt in the Army and had possibly mistaken me for a recruit. I think the RO heard what she said, because the next day, she was no longer working on the firing line. I didn't have to do a thing.

One thing to remember and I know it's no excuse, but for most of these events these people are volunteers and without volunteers us shooters wouldn't have many events. We all have bad days, so before anyone reacts or over reacts you just might want to temper your response with that knowledge. Like I said it doesn't excuse bad behaviour but I'm sure at sometime we've all rubbed someone the wrong way.

lastman wrote:
This is easy.

Take a tablespoon of concrete so you can harden up a bit!

In the story you outlined the shooters were at fault and deserved what they got. If you can't handle a distraction then you've got more problems than that.

Good luck

why should this person "harden up" as you say? the stage being shot was early in the morning so he should be refreshed and ready for work. the range officer could have handled the incident differently, but shose to be an ass about it

I was an observer on this range when the incident happened, and I can assure you that no local rules were broken

David Levene wrote:It also says however "Juries, Range officials, team officials and shooters must be advised of any special regulations."

Well then we're down to what 'advised' means. If its on a sign on the wall I'd take that to mean 'advised'.

A problem is most clubs woudn't assume any of their rules are 'special'.

JamesH wrote:

David Levene wrote:It also says however "Juries, Range officials, team officials and shooters must be advised of any special regulations."

Well then we're down to what 'advised' means. If its on a sign on the wall I'd take that to mean 'advised'.

A problem is most clubs woudn't assume any of their rules are 'special'.

and if there is no sign on a wall, no notice upon entry to the range or talk by the RO before the match, one would assume there are no special regulations on that range.

I would assume every club has some quirky rule.

Every range I've been to around the world bars people from touching anything on the bench when people are forward of the firing line, so this is hardly quirky.