TargetTalk

I'm setting up a shooting range in my suburban garage -I've got around 27' indoors, but could step outside and have 10 meters. How are airgun rifles and pistols classified in general laws ie, can I legally stand in my driveway and shoot into my own garage?

Depends upon the state and county. You could not legally do so in Fairfax County, Virginia, and only in some few areas of Loudon County, VA.

Peterz said it best. Over the past 15 years or so, airguns have gotten a lot of bad press: kids killing animals, vandalism, occasional 'accidental discharge', etc. Most suburbs have adopted an ordinance forbidding airgun discharge within residential districts.

As a land use and real estate professional, I'm going to officially discourage you from discharging an airgun outside of a shooting range or safe, outdoor setting. There, I've discouraged you.

More realistically, I will tell you some things you should know. First, smoke detectors sense CO2. Discharging CO2 from an airgun for long periods (more than ~25 shots) within 10 feet or so of a smoke detector MAY CAUSE ACTIVATION! Second, lead inside homes is taken very seriously by the real estate industry. Home inspectors use lead detectors as part of the inspection process now; long term airgun shooting indoors puts lead particles into the air, on walls and ceilings, and ultimately the ventilation system. The opening and closing of doors is enough to bring the particles inside the house. An abnormally high lead reading can and will stop a sale.

I'm telling you this not to discourage you, but to let you know that discharging an airgun indoors in a residential environment can cause many problems for you, both now and in the future. Discharging an airgun in a residential area (indoors or out) is a dangerous proposition. Again, I'm not trying to be the harbinger of doom, I'm just outlining some very realistic possibilities based on my years in the real estate industry.

Legally, maybe. But I wouldn't recommend it. Too much potential for problems with the neighbors. Make up some reduced targets and shoot indoors.

YIKES!!! I figured most of you folks would be shooting in a garage or basement. I thought 10 meter was an indoor sport rather specifically. Now I don't think I can move forward. I appreciate the info very much; but it is very disappointing.

A lot do, there was doctor, pediatrician who use to frequent this forum. He did a lot of studies with regards to lead and pellets in the home. As long as you follow basic hygiene practices there didn't seem to be much of an issue also the use of a silent pellet trap (those that use a putty to catch the pellets worked well to contain the lead). Most lead from shooting is not from the projectiles but from the lead in the priming compound as it is vapourized it is also easier and more readily moved to your blood stream.

I myself don't shoot at home anymore , I found the benefits to training were minimal. At home now I just dryfire and use my Scatt electronic trainer. That said I'm close to a range which I have access to 24/7 365, if I didn't have access to a range I'd be shooting in my basement because it way better than nothing.

That said I still wouldn't shoot from my driveway into the garage, it seems like it might lead to a problem.

Anonymous wrote:YIKES!!! I figured most of you folks would be shooting in a garage or basement. I thought 10 meter was an indoor sport rather specifically. ....

I shoot AP in the basement three times a week, but nobody knows. If your neighbors see your AP, one of them will surely call the Cops.

A guy in the league has no room within his home to shoot AP. His fix was to run 30' of drainage pipe through the garage wall and out into the yard. There is a silent trap and a light down at the end, and the target is on a trolley--instant shooting range

I have a different take from Weilers, tho' I thank him for the compliment! I've been shooting 10m indoors for something on the order of 20 years and seriously for the last 3. I use a 'silent pellet trap' which catches the pellets in "ductseal" putty (not "plumber's putty", but still available at Home Depot and most hardware stores).

The pellets stop in the putty and do not fragment, so the amount of dust put into the air is really tiny. While it might be detectable by an inspector, it won't be after you clean up your range and then paint the room you've used. I don't worry. You do have to pick pellet clusters out of the putty or subsequent shots will fragment on those chunks of lead. Pellet traps with steel catch plates and no putty are a different animal, and I think Weilers is right that they will cause dust.

As a matter of physics (my field), very, very few smoke detectors trigger on CO2. Most detect the presence of smoke by either the smoke blocking a beam of light or by the smoke binding to ions provided by a small radioactive source. Wikipedia has a good article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_detectors

Now as to legality... I'm neither a real estate pro nor a lawyer, but I did look up the laws where I live. (Your state or county may differ!) It's ok to shoot an air gun indoors in Fairfax and Loudon Counties, but not a .22 or other firearm. However, in residential areas you may not discharge any arm out of doors except on an approved range -- which requires a county minimum of something like 20 acres. This has been interpreted in Fairfax to mean that a kid can't shoot a toy bow and arrow or a Daisy Red Rider BB gun in his or her back yard. Nor can a farmer in Fairfax, and we still have a few, take vermin in his fields with an air gun.

If your neighbors see your AP, one of them will surely call the Cops.

You really do not want the neighbors to see the pistol until you've mentioned to them that you shoot in the basement and offered them a chance to try their hands at it. Letting them shoot a few times does wonders for persuading them that you're not going to run amok and that it's a sporting gun, not something else that they may have found sinister.

OTOH, with a modern air pistol or aluminum stocked rifle, they may think it's some Star Wars type of weapon.

You can always get a Scatt system and use it to practice without live fire. It allows you to scale the target and simulate a 10 meter distance in much less space. It's also a great training aid.

Just shoot 27 feet. Indoors is nice and private.

My boys and I shoot in my basement (6m range) and the garage (full 10 m range) year-round with none of my neighbors any the wiser. On the other hand, several of them are traditional deer and/or wildfowl hunters and I'm sure they wouldn't have any problem if they did know.

I use the putty-style pellet trap. Silent and safe, in my opinion. Being able to spend an hour shooting in between the evening TV shows I want to watch is just so convenient. If I had to pack up the guns and drive to the local range (which we do if we want to shoot rimfire), I don't think I'd put 1/8 as many rounds down the barrel as I do today shooting at home.

On the other hand, letting the public see you shooting in the suburbs is just asking for trouble; don't step outside.

27 feet is close enough, as long as you scale down your targets appropriately. I use Ian Pellant's Windows application "Airgun 7.5.2" for just this purpose--to make appropriately sized targets for my 6m basement range. Works great--highly recommended.

We've talked about this before. Never mind all these putty problems. Shoot into a box of rags. When it's full, throw it away.

If the distance is your problem use reduced targets.

Remember, the group is the only thing you're shooting for.

We all like a tight one!

weilers wrote:First, smoke detectors sense CO2. Discharging CO2 from an airgun for long periods (more than ~25 shots) within 10 feet or so of a smoke detector MAY CAUSE ACTIVATION!

No, most common domestic smoke detectors work on the principle of smoke neutralising the alpha radiation source. The drop in radiation detected on the sensor-side trips the alarm. If it were based on CO2 (which occurs naturally in the atmosphere), then throwing a big party with lots of people laughing and talking would be enough to raise the CO2 levels enough to trip it!
I'm sure there are some CO2 based systems for specific applications, the same as there are some based on temperature and water vapour, but most are smoke-based, so don't detect CO2.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I shoot AP in the basement three times a week, but nobody knows. If your neighbors see your AP, one of them will surely call the Cops.

That depends entirely on your neighbours. If you have a good relationship with them, then explaining clearly and showing that you are open and responsible about your hobby is often better than hiding it in the basement, where any misunderstandings could give off a sinister impression that you have something to hide. But like I say, that depends entirely on your neighbours!

Richard H wrote:A lot do, there was doctor, pediatrician who use to frequent this forum. He did a lot of studies with regards to lead and pellets in the home. As long as you follow basic hygiene practices there didn't seem to be much of an issue also the use of a silent pellet trap (those that use a putty to catch the pellets worked well to contain the lead). Most lead from shooting is not from the projectiles but from the lead in the priming compound as it is vapourized it is also easier and more readily moved to your blood stream.

Yes, since most of the issue is from priming compounds, airborne lead is not really an issue with airguns. However, you are handling lead pellets (whereas with powder-burners you are handling the brass casing), so washing your hands afterwards is more important.

I know someone who's brother shot at school in the session prior to lunch break a couple of times a week (some funny timetabling, don't ask me to explain). Allegedly he wasn't overly concerned about washing his hands before going to eat.
As it happened, the Army (the shooting was with the school cadets), did a research project, studying blood-lead levels. My mate's brother's were no higher than would normally be expected, and nor were anyone else's. Whilst there are risks, they are frequently overstated, and use of a putty or rag pellet catcher rather than steel plate will pretty much eliminate the release of any lead into the house.

Basically if you shoot powder-burners on a small, stuffy indoor range with no extractors, or you handle copious amoutns of lead before going and eating finger food, you could have issues, but with a little common sense it's no more dangerous than having a glass of wine a couple of nights a week.

What is the difference between smoke detector and rf detector?

Anonymous wrote:What is the difference between smoke detector and rf detector?

Two different thing.