TargetTalk

I just came back from World Championships in Munich, and I had a chance to have a feel of the SSP electronic.

Being a Pardini SP1 owner, I was particularly interested in only one aspect of the SSP-E: whether they solved the double firing issue.

A little of background: basically my Pardini SP1 would double fire once in a while. This is because the trigger activates a micro switch. If you come from a precision shooting background, you are most likely going to increase trigger pressure very slowly, and hold it there even after the shot is released. On mechanical triggers this is fine, but on fast acting electronic triggers (ie, not the Morini air pistol one), there is a point at which you are pulling just hard enough to engage the micro switch, and any vibration, say from the recoil or just the slightest movement of your finger will both reset and fire the next shot. I have not been able to resolve this problem on my SP1, and that's why I have stopped shooting it. It is a great gun to dry fire with, but not so much for competing.

Okay, so I am in the giant Walther tent, I get them to bring the SSP-E out of the display area, and I dry fire it.

First of all, I notice a strange thing, the trigger is set to be single stage (ie, no play, no travel, almost zero after travel, it was either on, or off)! This is a rather surprising. I don't think I've ever felt a factory trigger setting on a modern pistol that was set to single stage. Of course this could just be because they don't have very many SSP-E's made, and this is whoever is testing this particular one's personal shooting preference.

Given it was single stage, it was hard to get a feel for the quality of the 2 stage trigger. But I am sure it will be fine.

Next I went on to try to make it double release. So basically my method of testing is to pull the trigger slow as possible, just as it breaks, I hold it there at the same pressure, and then hit the front face of the gun with my left palm.

It didn't take much effort, and I was able to reproduce the similar multiple release issue as I had with my SP1.

So I talked to the Walther man there, and I describe the problem, and asked him what was their take on this.

He said they introduced an artificial delay in the trigger. I am not sure about that, since I was able to click the trigger as fast as I can pull it. And of course if they introduce a delay, then you have the issue of different delays needed for different events. Rapid fire guys won't want any delay, sport pistol shooters want some delay, standard pistol will want minimal delays, military rapid fire would also want almost none...etc. Anyway, I told him all this, and he conceded this is an issue.

Then I asked him what type of batteries it uses, if it was AAA like all the other modern electronic triggers. He said, no, it is internal! It is USB rechargeable! You plug it in for 9 minutes, and it will do something like 80 shots. If you let it fully charge in 90 minutes, it'll fire like 6000 shots.

So that was pretty interesting, then I said if they are using USB anyway, maybe they can make the delay user programmable... haha, he thought it was a cool idea, but honestly I don't know how serious he was. As a computer person, I would of course love the idea of a USB programmable interface to a gun (I mean, think about it! How awesome would that be?!)

So there you have it. From what I tried, the SSP-E has the same multi-release problem I had with the SP1.

-trinity

trinity wrote:...but on fast acting electronic triggers (ie, not the Morini air pistol one), there is a point at which you are pulling just hard enough to engage the micro switch, and any vibration, say from the recoil or just the slightest movement of your finger will both reset and fire the next shot.

I often get a second dry-fire "click" on my 162EI for this very reason.

BTW, I went looking for you after your 25m match to say "hi" but couldn't find you. Were you at the final?

trinity wrote:So that was pretty interesting, then I said if they are using USB anyway, maybe they can make the delay user programmable... haha, he thought it was a cool idea, but honestly I don't know how serious he was. As a computer person, I would of course love the idea of a USB programmable interface to a gun (I mean, think about it! How awesome would that be?!)

Oh yes and then they can add firmware upgrade for bug fixes, feature upgrade, download of your trigger pull scheme and son on = the whole PC shit !

I will definitely stick to a mechanical trigger.

Wouldn't such a delay be a violation of the rules? Unless what they meant was that the e trigger has a "lock-out" period where it won't fire within x milliseconds of the previous triggering. Still plenty of time for RF speed normal triggering, but avoiding doubling.

if SSP-e trigger has a consistent behavior between shoots i believe it is OK IMHO. the problem would be when trigger firmware will be designed to make the trigger alter its hysteresis between shots without user input. Especially if the modules decisions are based on input from external sensors who somehow tell the trigger module when the barrel points to the ten ring.

Which is clearly prohibited by ISSF rules. Besides, e-triggers have been around for 20 years, and AFAIK there have been no problems in this direction.

Tycho wrote:Which is clearly prohibited by ISSF rules. Besides, e-triggers have been around for 20 years, and AFAIK there have been no problems in this direction.

Actually, longer than that. I was able to hold the Walther FP with the e-trigger at Camp Perry in 1980. The Walther rep said that it was one of only two in the world at that time.

David Levene wrote:

trinity wrote:...but on fast acting electronic triggers (ie, not the Morini air pistol one), there is a point at which you are pulling just hard enough to engage the micro switch, and any vibration, say from the recoil or just the slightest movement of your finger will both reset and fire the next shot.

I often get a second dry-fire "click" on my 162EI for this very reason.

BTW, I went looking for you after your 25m match to say "hi" but couldn't find you. Were you at the final?

Hi David,

But on the 162EI it will NOT click as fast as you can pull the trigger. On standard pistols like the SP1 and the SSP-E, you can click it as fast as you can pull the trigger. The 162EI's delay must be like a second or half a second.

After my precision half, I think I went to the restaurant to eat something. Then after the rapid half, I went to the Canada room for a bit, did some diary I think, came back, watched a little of the 3rd SP rapid relay, then went off to the bimmer museum :-)

-trinity

trinity wrote:The 162EI's delay must be like a second or half a second.

Not on mine; it's a definite "phutt-click" (no delay, almost simutaneous)when I do my job right.

trinity wrote:I went to the Canada room for a bit, did some diary I think, came back, watched a little of the 3rd SP rapid relay, then went off to the bimmer museum :-)

That's a shame. It was not the final to miss. 3 malfunctions, a shoot-off and 6th place to 1st finals are pretty rare.

There are different versions of the Morini electronic around. Earlier ones can do the serial-fire trick; newer ones (but don't ask me at which snr they change) have a delay of some tenths of a sec during which no shot can be released. I'm not even sure that it's intentional, and they may have switched back, perhaps it was a beta series, but I disctinctly remember having been shown a "stock" 162EI by my gunsmith that was impossible to "double" and had a new e-module.

The trigger switch/circuit changed with the change of battery (from a break switch to a make switch). I had a early Morini 102 with the electronic trigger that was very good for Standard pistol, you could not get it to double (same board as the early fixed tank airpistol, 15volt battery). The trigger was super on that pistol, but the pistol had other issues that saw its demise.
The Morini trigger has a variable delay depending on the battery state to recharge the capacitor. It has never been a problem.

Tycho wrote:There are different versions of the Morini electronic around. Earlier ones can do the serial-fire trick; newer ones (but don't ask me at which snr they change) have a delay of some tenths of a sec during which no shot can be released.

Thanks Tycho, I've never heard that before.

I guess that, at over 9 years old, my AAA module would probably qualify as an early one.

My 162E module (15v) is made from metalux (swiss company) and is marked for use on 162e, 102e and what was the .22short version of 102e. It can certainly do 5 shots in 4 secs.

David M wrote:It has never been a problem.

I've never seen it as a problem, just as something that sometimes happens.

Yep. My 162EI double-clicks almost every shot when I use if left handed, but almost never when I shoot right handed - so it depends very much on the finger that's pressing the trigger :-)