TargetTalk

Just curious about how long between shots is normal. I seem to get tired shooting 50 shots at 5 10M targets in 20 minutes. This causes my are to shakey. Is there a time thing when in competition? Thanks Ron

Remember that under ISSF rules, when you would be shooting on returning or electronic targets, you get 105 minutes for 60 shots plus sighters.

Many shooters will only have 10 minutes (or less) left at the end.

Perhaps I have missed something. I thought that for men's air pistol, the time allowed was 1 hour 45 minutes for 60 shots and sighters. Has this changed, or are you discussing a different match?

1 hour (60 minutes) + 45 minutes = 105 minutes...

darticus wrote:Just curious about how long between shots is normal. I seem to get tired shooting 50 shots at 5 10M targets in 20 minutes. This causes my are to shakey. Is there a time thing when in competition? Thanks Ron

The others have clarified the time limit for the match. I believe you are asking about the time between shots and fatigue.

You should pick up the gun when you feel comfortable executing the shot properly. You should abort the shot when things aren't right (e.g. maybe you hold too long and your wobble area deteriorates, grip isn't correct, etc.P). Every lift and shot or attempt to shoot is a hold, and that normally addsup to far more than 60 plus sighters.

The true way to overcome fatigue is to condition your muscles to handle more holds, let's say 90 to 120. If you can do between that range, a match 60 shots plus sighters, with all the shots and aborts, will be no problem.

Then it's about executing as many good shots as you can and improving upon that percentage. Take it one step at a time.

Good luck,
Retired

darticus wrote:Just curious about how long between shots is normal. I seem to get tired shooting 50 shots at 5 10M targets in 20 minutes. This causes my are to shakey. Is there a time thing when in competition? Thanks Ron

Retired guest is quite right, we got tangled up in the side discussion: so here goes...

for the ISSF 10m Mens event, the average shooter puts down about 10 to 30 sighters giving 70 to 90 shots in the 105 minutes: (roughly) = a shot every 1 to 1 1/2 minutes, although few take the full 105 minutes.
i.e. plenty of time to 'rest' in between shots, put down the pistol, stretch, whatever.

on the other hand, you are putting down a shot every 24 seconds for the 50 shots - no wonder you are getting 'shakey'.

conditioning exercises will help, but learn to pace yourself for a precision match and take breaks to put down the pistol, stretch, whatever.

Spencer wrote:1 hour (60 minutes) + 45 minutes = 105 minutes...

Sorry, my bad. Late night is my excuse.

Sounds like you should work on conditioning. I would recommend you working on holding exercises several times a week to get you to the point where you can shoot 70-90 shots without feeling tired. For me I shoot about 75 shots for a match in about 50 minutes.

For both free and air, allow 15 min for sighters and 15 min for each series of ten shots (leaves an extra 15 min up your sleeve in free).
Use this timing as a "ahead or behind time table" not as a strict timing.
So on a good day you might shoot a few sighters and start the match early and everything flows, at 40min you are halfway (30 shots) and 20 min ahead. You can afford a break of 20 min if needed.
But on a day when things are not so good and you take 25 min for sighters and struggle for the first two series you take 55 min, you know that you are 10 min behind with four series to go and you need to make up about 2-3 min each series and can not afford a rest.
Using this type of timing allows you to have a good idea of how your time management is going.
There is no excuse for leaving unfired shots on the bench and not finishing a match due to poor timing.
You might even have time for a coffee break in the middle of the match.
Develop your own timing to evenly pace the match and not rush.

I would suggest a more useful timing is to know how far through the match you normally are after an hour. I personally like to be around about 40 shots, and I will probably have had a couple of shortish breaks in that time frame. Most people take well under a minute from shot to shot. You can work to more detailed timings but you run the risk of getting distracted from performing the shot and start worrying about time. At the end of the day though, it's up to you to come up with a pattern that works for you, and that you feel comfortable with.

Rob.

Howdy,
For training, an interval timer can help you learn/keep timing.

I picked one up from ebay, no affiliation etc...
ebay search: Interval Timer:Weight Lifting, Strength Training TMR05B

its about 20$, has both a beeper and a light flash, beeper can be disabled, adjustable for both rest period, and shot period, repeatable 99 times..

when shooting with SCATT, I've found my average is between 30 seconds to 75 seconds, roughly, as it depends on what the training lesson is that I'm trying to learn.

zuckerman wrote: For training, an interval timer can help you learn/keep timing.

I'm sorry but I cannot see any useful purpose for an interval timer in Air Pistol.

There is no merit in shooting to a specific rhythm or speed. Whether it takes 1 minute or 5 minutes to fire a shot doesn't matter. The only time that matters is the completion time for the match. If you want to set a couple of check points along the way then fine, but they should be for guidance and peace of mind only.

Anything else is dependant on your performance on the day and the type of targetry you are using (shooters will often fire faster on electronic targets than they do on returning targets).

David Levene wrote:
I'm sorry but I cannot see any useful purpose for an interval timer in Air Pistol.

There is no merit in shooting to a specific rhythm or speed. Whether it takes 1 minute or 5 minutes to fire a shot doesn't matter. The only time that matters is the completion time for the match. If you want to set a couple of check points along the way then fine, but they should be for guidance and peace of mind only.

Anything else is dependant on your performance on the day and the type of targetry you are using (shooters will often fire faster on electronic targets than they do on returning targets).

Totally agree.

Sometimes during a match you emotions can get the better of you and it may take up 10 mins to fire a shot. Other times everything is going well and you just fire 1 shot after another naturally. You don't want to put more pressure on yourself than is necessary.

In reference to the original question 50 shots in 20 mins is a lot. Its like 2.5 shots per minute. I would suggest that your not taking enough time to properly complete a shot process. I think you will find that if you allow a bit more time to properly fire a shot then you will obviously take more time, but you will establish a natural rhythm for firing series of shots.

Good luck

I believe that is is usually very helpful to train the way you are going to have to shoot in an actual match. If you are training for AP, set your clock for 105 minutes and get your shots done in that amount of time. It is also best to train at a range that has a similar setup to the match location as anything new can be a distractor and throw you out of your rhythm. I had trouble at my first AP match dealing with the fact that the target carrier control was right where I wanted to put my hand since I shoot left handed.
On the other hand if you are training for standard pistol it is best to give yourself only 2.5 minutes for each 5 shots because that is what you have in a match. It usually wont cause you stress to be ahead in a match. It will only stress you out if you are behind. Isabel

howdy,
my suggestion for an interval timer was to help the shooter Darticus. his statement that he shot 50 shots in 20 minutes and gets shaky indicates to me that he is shooting too fast. if you or I were his coach and were watching him shoot that fast and with poor results from the shaking, we would slow him down and in effect become an interval timer for him. a timer, or a clock, when used as a training aid, will help him realize he has enough time to shoot calmly, and he will then be more precise when he shoots.

zuckerman wrote:if you or I were his coach and were watching him shoot that fast and with poor results from the shaking, we would slow him down and in effect become an interval timer for him.

I cannot be certain (without seeing him shoot) but there is a high probability that I would try to slow him down.

I would not do that based on timing however; more by concentrating on a proper shot routine and execution.

RE:>I cannot be certain (without seeing him shoot) but there is a high probability that I would try to slow him down. I would not do that based on timing however; more by concentrating on a >>proper shot routine << and execution.

we are talking about the same thing, using different terminology.

you would probably tell him, before he takes the shot, take a few breaths and compose himself, with the gun down before he loaded it, or, have him load the gun, then breathe for a few moments while he composes himself, and then he would begin the shooting sequence of lift, obtain the sight picture, trigger control, follow through.
and repeat. and repeat.

I would offer the same advice.

you and I are not there watching and coaching, so I see a piece of equipment that can do what we would do, slow him down and make his shooting more consistant. because if nothing else this sport is based on repeatability. so, during his training, having him know a time frame to shoot within, will help him attain that repeatability. He will know when to hurry up or slow down later, when, according to the day, his ability and his mood, he has learned the trick of repeatable routine calm shooting.

as to how long per shot? it doesn't matter if its not every +/- X seconds, only that the shooter is calm when he takes the shot and does it in a repeatable manner.