TargetTalk

the basic question is this..

when getting stoped by the local police and they asked is there any weapons or drugs in the car and informing them that there is a air rifle in the vehicle ..

1-do get the whole question of is it loaded

2-step out of the car and walk back to the there car and they go and get the air rifle case and as seen how many locks are on it they relax a little and then asked you for the keys to the case to open it up..

the reason why i asked this question .. for i ran into a set of motorcycle officer after getting stoped for speeding ..i was going three miles over the speed limit that what the officer tells me i was stoped..i was going 38 miles in a 35 mile zone..

when the one motorcycle officer walked to the car and saw the air rifle case and access bag ..he asked saight away if i had a weapon in the car ..i told yes and it a air rifle in it a locked case with two locks on the latchs and a lock on the handle that was in plain sight .. i was asked to get out of the car and they took me back to where the bikes where parked behind me and the one officer got the case out of the car and layed on the ground

when the other motorcycle officer saw how many locks on the case he asked me for the keys and i told them to go into the access bag and get them out of the bag so they can unlock the case and he unlocked the case and ran the serial numbers and they came back clean ..when asked what do i do with the rifle ..i told them i like to target shooting when iam off work along with why so many locks on the case .. i told them for my and yours safety when stoped by the police. .that was the end of the questioning about the rifle.

they closed the case and locked it back and put it back into the car seat and i was issued my ticket then was allowed to leave after that..

has anyone else ever go through that out here in CA when stoped by the police depts out here ..

this two officers where ok but i heard horror stories and dealt with a few depts out here that where plain anti-gun no matter what was in the case

What kind of vehicle do you drive?
If a car, I would put the rifle in the trunk, where it is out of access...vehicle concealed weapon laws.
Truck or SUV, same law, different rules.

All things considered, I think you did OK.
Considering how bad it could have gone.

A lot depends on what experience good or bad those officers had in the past.

I'm not a Lawyer, but I've been in Law Enforcement for nearly 31 years

Practice saying this. “I do not give you permission to search my vehicle.” Once they removed you from your car, you did not have access to the gun case. Once the case and its contents are not a threat to the Officer (especially with all those locks), they have no right to search it. If you give permission to search, then you can be assured of a (10 min or more) hassle, and more than likely a ticket. Three over is more than likely going to get you a warning, if they can’t find something more to write you for. You do what you want, but I would NEVER give permission to search my vehicle. Federal Law says your Air Rifle is not a Gun anyway.

Only in Ca. They r taxing us by police force. Average ticket $350. average police salary $160,000. They where just hoping to get you for another charge. If I could leave I would! How many other posters have gotten a ticket for 3 mph over the limit?

You can fight that ticket and win. Get the specs. on the radar gun.

http://www.kccn.tv/

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wKRKGqYZjI

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PI4rkECqWg

Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfFbX1CE4zA


JULY 2010 VOL. ONE, EDITION 1
Sheriff's deputies' disdain for Constitution captured by their own recorded comments

By DANIEL BLACKBURN

When San Luis Obispo County Sheriff’s Deputy Darren Murphy responded to a “shots fired” call in April 2008, he decided en route that he was going to make an arrest.
He did far more than that. Murphy and other deputies made an unwarranted entry into a home, and then into a locked gun safe. Murphy's uncensored, darkly disturbing observations and behavior following his Code-3 arrival at the rural home of longtime SLO County resident Matt Hart were picked up by Murphy's and other deputies’ own recorders. Those recordings provide a rare, frighteningly revealing, behind-the-scenes perspective of how one local law enforcement agency views the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and other laws its personnel are sworn to uphold.

Sheriff’s spinner Rob Bryn declined to confirm the identities of any of the deputies appearing or heard in the recordings, or to discuss any aspect of the Hart home invasion. So we've done that for you. (Bryn, ever the public servant, eventually stopped responding to e-mails from a KCCN.tv reporter.)

Deputies’ deportment in the field as exhibited by their own words, as well as their plainly audible efforts to fabricate justifications for their actions, are lamentable. Local county prosecutors’ subsequent abuse of power, wielded in a cavalier, clumsy, and transparent effort to avoid a lawsuit, also is troubling.

But in the larger scheme of things, it is the systematic dismantling of the Fourth Amendment by over-zealous cops and an enabling judiciary that should be a cause of concern for every American citizen. Incredibly, Hart's case may be less of an anomaly than it appears.

The question is: Should law enforcement officers like Deputy Darren Murphy be allowed to make day-to-day, life-changing decisions regarding the fate of law-abiding citizens?

Watch. Listen. And then you be the judge.

for those who live in the state of Ca it a whole diff ballgame when it comes to how they play the game when it comes to the personal firearms and the law.

when stoped out here in Ca the first set of question they asked you is this automatic set of questions

1-do you have any drugs in the car

or

2-do you have any weapons in the car

then they asked for driver lics and proof of ins and car registration etc etc etc

they are very bad about not likeing anytype of firearms beening owned by the people of the state of CA .

i drive a small smart car which basically has no rear seat and you could see the weapon case in plain view of the officers who had stoped me..

when i said that i had a weapon in the car i basically lost the right to not be searched in the mind set out here.plus they say they do it for socalled officer safety by pulling me out of the car to protect themselfs as they where saying.

so it getting stanger by the min at times out here for legal gun owners .

david alaways wrote:Only in Ca. They r taxing us by police force. Average ticket $350. average police salary $160,000. They where just hoping to get you for another charge. If I could leave I would! How many other posters have gotten a ticket for 3 mph over the limit?

I do not believe that the average police salary is $160k. Where did you read that?

Here we have rookie cops making over $100,000. Its bonus and overtime that propel a $65000 starting pay to over $100,000. Take one class and get a $5,000 bonus for the rest of your life , Repeat it with different classes get more bonuses. Ben Stien and 3 other economic types where disscussing the downfall of american cities and towns. They said that with the average cost of a cop Benifits and salary being $160,000 ( not the cost of putting him on the street , thats more) That will lead to the downfall of alot of cities in the near furture. In Ca. one town just fired its entire police dept. In another the cheif just quit with $400,000 plus salary. A fire cheif just retired at 50 with a $241,000 retirement salary (wonder what the next guy will get and how long till he retires).Most officers in our town dont even retire they pull full disability as soon as they can. Its said our cheif just pulled full disability then was rehired by the city to do another job. ( I thought he was couldnt work?) According to Stien the nationally average package benifits and salary is $160,000 ,now thats not Ca. but national . Ca. is even more. Whats does this have to do with guns anyway? This state is so screwed up right now, I beleive we are not even seeing the tip of the iceberg (if the iceberg was made of shit) when the shit hits the fan.

henry1 wrote:the basic question is this..

In almost every state (I think there are only two where it's not the case) an air rifle is not a firearm (as another poster pointed out). Even if it were a firearm (which it isn't), as the U.S. Supreme Court and numerous state courts have had to explain to the government on many occasions, there is no special "gun" exception to the Fourth Amendment.

When police stop you and start asking questions, the answer in today's day and age you are really forced to give is "am I free to leave?" Unfortunately, the moment you are stopped, you are their subject and no longer viewed as a citizen to be protected. If they say "yes," then leave. If they say anything other than "yes" you are detained and should not answer any questions. If they explicitly or implicitly threaten you with arrest or prolonged detention or (on rare occasion thankfully) physical harm, demand a supervisor on scene and explain that you won't answer any questions without your lawyer present.

Deviate from the above at your own peril. If you don't assert (verbally of course -- don't get a wood shampoo or taser ride on the spot) your rights on your own behalf on the spot, the unfortunate reality of the modern relationship of citizen to government is that you have no rights.

By way of example, they searched your car, your gun case, the bag that the keys were in and the serial number of the air rifle, all in violation of your rights under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. You also waived your rights under the Fifth Amendment every time you responded to their questions. Despite that treatment, you got the ticket anyway. What did you gain by having all of those important and hard fought and won rights trampled on? I can tell you what you lost.

the basic problem here in the state of Ca is that once you stoped and say is there a not a weapon in the vehicle and they pull you out of the vehicle after beening stoped and did not tell them that they is a firearm in the vehicle you can find yourself with another charge if the local D.A is in a bad mood along with the fact going to charge you with a another charge that you have to defend yourself on in the courts system .plus if you read some of the socalled gun laws out here it will not be soon that in the state of Ca a air rifle is going to be listed as a weapon in the eyes of the law enforcement out here....

so it better to play the game at times out here in the Ca..plus i the car i drive you can not help but to see into the car socalled trunk space of the car..

i been through a couple of states when i was asked about a weapon in the car i was basically told them it in the trunk of the car or in the back of the pickup bed that was cover by a capper.. they would say ok and do not move from the vehicle..

plus by law i most inform the officers when stoped that i have a Texas CCW permit ..when in the classroom when takeing the CCW class ..they will tell you to take a chance when beening stoped by a law enforcement officer to inform them that you have a CCW and a weapon on you ..so not to lose my permit i will allways tell the officers that i have a CCW permit ..but in CA i do not carry my pistol outside the house here in Ca

A little different here in AL. A few years ago I was going home from junior team practice when an officer decided to explain the finer points of how far a ladder can legally extend behind the truck. He asked if I had anything to use for a flag. I had caution tape in the back so I turned to get it. Realizing I would need to pick up a BB gun to the tape I stopped and explained that I had guns in the back on top of the tape. He asked if they were registered and I explained they were long guns and I didn't know of a long gun registration and besides they were air guns. He then wanted to know why I was telling him about them. I explained that one was not in a case and I would have to lift it up to get the tape. Furthermore since he had a firearm I did not want him to feel threatened. He thanked me and said go ahead.

Point is he doesn't have permission to search my vehicle, but, I'm not going to get anywhere near a situation where an officer feels threatened.

As a retired police officer and now a lawyer, I fully endorse the comments made by GCSInc. The second amendment's most formidable enemy is and has always been law enforcement.

In my day a cop who wrote anyone (except for a career criminal) a ticket for 3 over would justifiably be labeled as a "punk" and shunned by his/her colleagues.

Unfortunately, they just dont make 'em like they used to.

i saw the one motorcycle officer who was the nice one of the pair tonight when i stoped by 7/11 to get a drink and sandwich on the way home from work and we got to talking about the diff things along how did he remember me about the stop he told me that you drive a smart and you had a rifle case in the rear area .. he told i remember things like that ..

when i asked why i was pulled out the car .he basically said after seeing the case with that many locks on it he knew i was not a threat and should been handle a little diff than it was .. he basically said in a way that was not saying anything bad about the guy that day .. the guy would write his own mother a ticket along with the guy tried to turn every stop into a drug stop or how many tickets he could write..he did it was not the way he would handle it tha day

we talked for a few mins and ask me for the number where i could be reached and he would talk to me later about him and his wife comeing out to the friend house to try there hand at 10 meter air rifle or pistol

henry1

Congratulations! You turned a sour situation into something very positive. If you can influence this Police Officer to think like one of us, then your pain may have been worth it for the larger group. We’ll probably never fix the @sshat, but you may have made a friend.

Good On Ya

for he had his regular partner with him last night and when he was telling the partner about the other guy .. the guy made this face like yeah i know .. the other guy basically said this comment was thank god i have to work with him here and there and it not a everyday thing.. i do not think from that statement he well liked in his dept much

when the one officer was telling the other officer about the air rifle and the sport ..they both started to ask me question about the how the whole thing worked and the sport ..so i basically walked off 33.ft at a guess and held up a dime and told them this how big the bulleyes is and when praticeing at 10 meters it the same for rifle shooting out the 300 meter mark with open sights .. they both said that they never knew that ..for i told it great to pratice your hunting skills along with beening able to inprove one scores on the rifle or pistol range in diff training programs

when showing the dime at the 33 ft mark the one guy goes and you hit that with open sights .. he goes ok when i need a rifle shooter i know who to come to laughing about the joke .he said as we where parting ways this morning they where done with there break and i was head home for the night ..

henry1 wrote:the basic problem here in the state of Ca is that once you stoped and say is there a not a weapon in the vehicle and they pull you out of the vehicle after beening stoped and did not tell them that they is a firearm in the vehicle you can find yourself with another charge if the local D.A is in a bad mood along with the fact going to charge you with a another charge that you have to defend yourself on in the courts system .plus if you read some of the socalled gun laws out here it will not be soon that in the state of Ca a air rifle is going to be listed as a weapon in the eyes of the law enforcement out here....

so it better to play the game at times out here in the Ca..plus i the car i drive you can not help but to see into the car socalled trunk space of the car..

i been through a couple of states when i was asked about a weapon in the car i was basically told them it in the trunk of the car or in the back of the pickup bed that was cover by a capper.. they would say ok and do not move from the vehicle..

plus by law i most inform the officers when stoped that i have a Texas CCW permit ..when in the classroom when takeing the CCW class ..they will tell you to take a chance when beening stoped by a law enforcement officer to inform them that you have a CCW and a weapon on you ..so not to lose my permit i will allways tell the officers that i have a CCW permit ..but in CA i do not carry my pistol outside the house here in Ca

I don't really think you understand the law at all.

The laws of Texas have nothing to do with California. You are so confused you don't know which way is up.

SRichieR wrote: He asked if they were registered

There we have it. Cops who don't even know firearm laws.....

From my experience, police only ask if you are carrying any weapons; they generally do not ask if you are carrying any handguns, or rifles.

While an air rifle is not a firearm, I do think it falls in the catagory of weapons.

In general I've found that you cannot win in verbal confrontations with the police; and when you do win (from personal experience) they will ambush you with other tickets.

I think the non-confrontational method is best. If you are not happy in the way it is being handled, dial 911 and ask for a supervisor to come to the location.

it seams when i when i talked to a another person at the match i was at a few days later about the traffic stop.. he is a Ca highway partol officer who son shoots in the local informal matchs that i was shooting at ..he basically told me that you have to remember the local police depts still think that any air rifle is a weapon in there understanding of the laws of the state of ca ..you have to explain to them when stoped the air rifle is a non weapon under ths state gun laws..he also said to be nice and let them take the weapon if they want to and have a lawyer deal with it or a person who is higher rank person than the person you dealing plus have the lastest copy of the state firearm laws with you to show the higher ranking person when thy show up on the scene ..