I have been trying out several brands of ammo with my CM84E free pistol lately and I have a question for those who are familiar with this pistol.
The Wolf Match Target ammo is great stuff for accuracy, but I just can't get it to eject reliably.
If I am shooting other ammo, such as Federal Gold Medal, I get great results and ejection every time. Then, when I start to shoot the Wolf, I get good ejection for 1-3 rounds then back to having to pull the cases out with my fingers!
The chamber is not an issue as far as I know since the Wolf drops right in with no resistance into the chamber and pulls out easily with my fingers. Basically very smooth in and out.
Why does the happen and is there a solution? I'd love to not have to pull the empties!
Tom
CM84E shell ejection problems - What to do?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
-
THREEDFLYER
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:42 am
- Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
CM84E shell ejection problems - What to do?
Last edited by THREEDFLYER on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The extractor is the one failing of the morini design.
As it is only on one side, the moment there's a sticky case it skips past and fails.
Try brushing the chamber often.
If only they gone with the Toz/Hammerli style extractor...
That said, I would rather shoot the best ammo and dig each case out with a screw driver than shoot "second choice" ammo just because it extracts nicely (not that I'm saying CCI of first choice!). There's no time pressure in FP.
As it is only on one side, the moment there's a sticky case it skips past and fails.
Try brushing the chamber often.
If only they gone with the Toz/Hammerli style extractor...
That said, I would rather shoot the best ammo and dig each case out with a screw driver than shoot "second choice" ammo just because it extracts nicely (not that I'm saying CCI of first choice!). There's no time pressure in FP.
-
THREEDFLYER
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:42 am
- Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Ejector
I looked closely as I opened the action after each shot and did not notice the ejector "passing" by the case rim. It just did not seem to "snap" the empties out.
The Wolf Match Target seems to be lower velocity than the Federal Gold Medal, but I just can't imagine that would be of any factor with a single shot pistol?!?!
I bought this one used and decided to take a closer look at the ejector.
It appears that there may have been some "crud/gunk" built up behind the ejector.
I believe I was able to clean it out and used some compressed air to be sure.
I'll give it a try at the range and report back.
I agree......if the ammo produces good groups, it not a big deal to hand eject them if needed. I just found it puzzling that since there seemed to be ZERO resistance needed to remove the empties that they would not just pop out of there!
Tom
The Wolf Match Target seems to be lower velocity than the Federal Gold Medal, but I just can't imagine that would be of any factor with a single shot pistol?!?!
I bought this one used and decided to take a closer look at the ejector.
It appears that there may have been some "crud/gunk" built up behind the ejector.
I believe I was able to clean it out and used some compressed air to be sure.
I'll give it a try at the range and report back.
I agree......if the ammo produces good groups, it not a big deal to hand eject them if needed. I just found it puzzling that since there seemed to be ZERO resistance needed to remove the empties that they would not just pop out of there!
Tom
The Morini is a European pistol and likes European ammo. There is a size difference between European spec .22 and American spec .22 ammo.
For years I have been running a American Match grade chambering reamer into all my European pistols to ensure I can feed them any ammo.
In the pistols there seems to be no loss of accuracy in the oversize chamber as long as you do not make the chamber deeper.
Without a reamer, polishing or honing the chamber will help.
For years I have been running a American Match grade chambering reamer into all my European pistols to ensure I can feed them any ammo.
In the pistols there seems to be no loss of accuracy in the oversize chamber as long as you do not make the chamber deeper.
Without a reamer, polishing or honing the chamber will help.
-
THREEDFLYER
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:42 am
- Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Results from the range
OK....so with a completely clean pistol I went to the range for some testing with the Wolf Match Target 22LR.
First round ejected as it should......so did then second.....then back to the non ejection issue.
If I brushed out the chamber, I could get one or two more to eject.
With careful inspection of the cartridges, I noticed that there is a fairly wet/greasy feeling lube applied to the Wolf so I decided to to wipe the lube off with a paper towel.
I cleaned off 10 rounds and had NO ejection problems whatsoever.
Conclusion: Too much lube on these from the factory (at least for my application). I am sure that the build up of the wet lube in the chamber (which is very tight) creates a "suction" effect causing the issue.
Solution: Wipe down each round prior to use OR pull each empty out of the chamber with each shot.
.....I'll wipe em' down while watching the game.....worth the hassle as this is REALLY good ammo!
Tom
First round ejected as it should......so did then second.....then back to the non ejection issue.
If I brushed out the chamber, I could get one or two more to eject.
With careful inspection of the cartridges, I noticed that there is a fairly wet/greasy feeling lube applied to the Wolf so I decided to to wipe the lube off with a paper towel.
I cleaned off 10 rounds and had NO ejection problems whatsoever.
Conclusion: Too much lube on these from the factory (at least for my application). I am sure that the build up of the wet lube in the chamber (which is very tight) creates a "suction" effect causing the issue.
Solution: Wipe down each round prior to use OR pull each empty out of the chamber with each shot.
.....I'll wipe em' down while watching the game.....worth the hassle as this is REALLY good ammo!
Tom
-
Chestertonian
Re: Results from the range
I thought Wolf ammunition was european---isn't it the same as SK?THREEDFLYER wrote:OK....so with a completely clean pistol I went to the range for some testing with the Wolf Match Target 22LR.
First round ejected as it should......so did then second.....then back to the non ejection issue.
If I brushed out the chamber, I could get one or two more to eject.
With careful inspection of the cartridges, I noticed that there is a fairly wet/greasy feeling lube applied to the Wolf so I decided to to wipe the lube off with a paper towel.
I cleaned off 10 rounds and had NO ejection problems whatsoever.
Conclusion: Too much lube on these from the factory (at least for my application). I am sure that the build up of the wet lube in the chamber (which is very tight) creates a "suction" effect causing the issue.
Solution: Wipe down each round prior to use OR pull each empty out of the chamber with each shot.
.....I'll wipe em' down while watching the game.....worth the hassle as this is REALLY good ammo!
Tom
-
THREEDFLYER
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:42 am
- Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Wolf & SK
Yes,
Wolf is made in Germany by the same company that produces SK.
Wolf is made in Germany by the same company that produces SK.
I own the pistol for a few weeks and have experienced the same problems with each ammo I use. So I think the reason is the single ejector which gets filthy quite quickly. I cleaned the ejector during the match but that´s disturbing my concentration. So I pull out each single case and it became part of my shooting-routine - and meanwhile I like this "handiwork". And if you watch the pros you´ll find some of them pulling out the case manually, too.
So don´t pay too much attention to this FACT. That´s one of the "misbehaviours" of a Morini CM84E. But as soon as you include the manual procedure into your shooting-routine it could even improving your concentration and your results.
Maybe the next improved and updated CM84E (or however it will be named) will present better features (such as 2 ejectors and "normal" batteries).
Regards
Max
PS: I was at the shooting range today and found out that Tom is right. I wiped off the lube from the ammo (I used SK Schönebeck standard plus which is my preferred brand when shooting FP) and NO single deadlocked case. Maybe I´m reconsidering my oppinion and will wipe off the lube on boring evenings at home ;-)
PSS: I´ve also experienced that CCI standard ammo seems to have a slight wider case-diameter which caused the same problems as too much lubrication. Or in other words: CCI ammo didn´t jump out of the chamber as all the other (anti-lube)cases did ;-)))
So don´t pay too much attention to this FACT. That´s one of the "misbehaviours" of a Morini CM84E. But as soon as you include the manual procedure into your shooting-routine it could even improving your concentration and your results.
Maybe the next improved and updated CM84E (or however it will be named) will present better features (such as 2 ejectors and "normal" batteries).
Regards
Max
PS: I was at the shooting range today and found out that Tom is right. I wiped off the lube from the ammo (I used SK Schönebeck standard plus which is my preferred brand when shooting FP) and NO single deadlocked case. Maybe I´m reconsidering my oppinion and will wipe off the lube on boring evenings at home ;-)
PSS: I´ve also experienced that CCI standard ammo seems to have a slight wider case-diameter which caused the same problems as too much lubrication. Or in other words: CCI ammo didn´t jump out of the chamber as all the other (anti-lube)cases did ;-)))
-
THREEDFLYER
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 12:42 am
- Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Ejector
Well, I am still having issues and I believe now that there is an issue with the ejector itself. I spoke with Buck at Pilkguns today and he tells me that this is a common problem ususally caused by dirt/gunk that gets built up in the ejector channel.
I am not sure how to safely remove the ejector as there are no break-down instructions for this in the manual that I have.
I inserted a .22 snap cap and function the action several times. I had at least 50% non ejection.
Tom
I am not sure how to safely remove the ejector as there are no break-down instructions for this in the manual that I have.
I inserted a .22 snap cap and function the action several times. I had at least 50% non ejection.
Tom
As a cm84e owner i also experience these so called problems.
These problems occur because of to reasons:
first reason is the size of the bullet. American made or ammo made for the American market like wolf are bigger in size then the European ammo.
The second reason is the grease. i experience that if i use ammo with bee-wax the problem is less.
SK standard-plus has no bee -wax coating. Match ammo like eley TENEX an lapua X-act or RWS R-50 do have these coating. After 10 rounds the bee-wax bullets also are coming out less easy. this happens by the fact that the wax is starting to melt and burn by the temperature of the ignition of the ammo. You can use a dental brush (biggest one) and brush the chamber each time after 5 rounds. This may help.
but is it a problem. if you expect that the empty case will fly 5 meters after ejection you are wrong. the empty case should come out easy en still lay in the loading area of your pistol. look at the issf video and you will see that the shooters remove there empty cases by hand out of the loading chamber.
For me the problem is that i almost have no nails on my fingers and there fore i can't remove the empty case with my fingers. I use a metal part to glide the empty case backwards out of the barrel and than by turning the wrist the empty case falls down in a waste bin.
Mad Mull
These problems occur because of to reasons:
first reason is the size of the bullet. American made or ammo made for the American market like wolf are bigger in size then the European ammo.
The second reason is the grease. i experience that if i use ammo with bee-wax the problem is less.
SK standard-plus has no bee -wax coating. Match ammo like eley TENEX an lapua X-act or RWS R-50 do have these coating. After 10 rounds the bee-wax bullets also are coming out less easy. this happens by the fact that the wax is starting to melt and burn by the temperature of the ignition of the ammo. You can use a dental brush (biggest one) and brush the chamber each time after 5 rounds. This may help.
but is it a problem. if you expect that the empty case will fly 5 meters after ejection you are wrong. the empty case should come out easy en still lay in the loading area of your pistol. look at the issf video and you will see that the shooters remove there empty cases by hand out of the loading chamber.
For me the problem is that i almost have no nails on my fingers and there fore i can't remove the empty case with my fingers. I use a metal part to glide the empty case backwards out of the barrel and than by turning the wrist the empty case falls down in a waste bin.
Mad Mull
If you wet your thumb and index finger with oil, then roll every fifth or tenth round between them, the ejection problem goes away. A couple of boxes can be done PDQ. Just a light film of oil is needed to break the stickiness of the brass. It also helps to keep carbon and bullet wax from fouling the chamber.
-
deadeyedick
- Posts: 1186
- Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:55 pm
- Location: Australia
I use SK Jagd Pistol Match in my Morini. I started to get a few failures to eject. I cleaned the chamber very carefully and used Kroil on the ejector. It works very well now. I have noticed that I must use some force when ejecting the spent cartridge. If I am wimpy when operating the lever, I'll still get a failure to eject once in a while.