TargetTalk

Can anyone explain the logic behind the differences between the different target height specs in the NRA International AP rules and the ISSF AP rules?

NRA Rule 6.8.3 d
1.4m +/- 10cm (0.1m or 4 inches) Rulebook ACTUALLY has it as10cms as 8 inches (a serious typo or are my conversions incorrect?)

ISSF Rule 6.3.9
1.4m +/- .5m (5cm or 2 inches)

I know that “logic”, and “NRA” might be considered an oxymoron, but I am a tall shooter at nearly 6’4” and I would like to at least practice at reasonable target height.

I just may elect to practice at 1.4m (55 inches) and be done with it and hope that PTO, NRA and other shoot organizers can decided on a height that will satisfy short and tall shooters within the rules of course.

By my understanding of the term “+/-“, one uses the center figure, in this case 1.4m/55 inches, and the variation from that can be no more than ½ of the “+/-“ figure high or low..

Am I correct in this interpretation as it applies to AP? Or am I totally confused?

Xman wrote:Can anyone explain the logic behind the differences between the different target height specs in the NRA International AP rules and the ISSF AP rules?

Is there any reason why 2 separate organisations should have exactly the same rules?

Xman wrote:ISSF Rule 6.3.9
1.4m +/- .5m (5cm or 2 inches)

Actually 1.4m +/- 0.05m

Xman wrote:By my understanding of the term “+/-“, one uses the center figure, in this case 1.4m/55 inches, and the variation from that can be no more than ½ of the “+/-“ figure high or low..

Wrong I'm afraid. Using the ISSF rules the centre can be between 1.35m and 1.45m above the level of the firing point floor.

David,

TY for catching MY typo...lol

Since the AP "game" is for all intents and purposes the same between NRA and ISSF, not withstanding of course the aforementioned rule, and of couse that old bugaboo TARGET QUALITY if using paper targets. There maybe a few other minor differences I have missed. ( I am certain that SOMEONE will enlighten me on all the differences *wink*)

Why should NOT the NRA rules match the ISSF? After all it was ONCE the NGB and aligning with the ISSF in international diciplines is a win win situation for both NRA and ISSF.

But I am certain that this topic has been beaten to death before in this forum, to no avail as the NRA is "deaf, dumb and blind". The NRA should just drop all pretenses and go strictly political, police, conventional rifle pistol and shotgun, F-3, military cowboy and silhouette in its senior and junior competitions.

Anonymous wrote:Why should NOT the NRA rules match the ISSF? After all it was ONCE the NGB and aligning with the ISSF in international diciplines is a win win situation for both NRA and ISSF.

Luckily we don't get involved with the decisions or rules of the US NRA on this side of the Atlantic, we have enough problems with our own associations. (I'm not moaning, I actually quite like our NSRA, but don't tell them that).

Practice with the center of your target as close to 1.4m as possible. The allowed variations are applicable to the range, not each competitor, and all targets must be hung at the same height in ISSF/USAS matches.

NRA does allow some variation per shooter, but many match directors require the 1.4m height.

The simple answer to the question may simply be to allow legal competition on all the many old ranges around the USA. ISSF target height is measure above the floor at the firing line. This requires a level floor and a surveyors instrument to mark the target heights down range. I am aware of many ranges where the floor isn't even close to being level yet alone level with the down range floor or ground.

If one is worried about target height on a single bull target, I hate think about one's frustration shooting on the B40-4 target card.

We can use shooting at multi-bull targets at varing heights as an exuse for poor performance, or we can use it as a tool for improving our zero point, etc, with improving results.

Raymond Odle wrote:The simple answer to the question may simply be to allow legal competition on all the many old ranges around the USA. ISSF target height is measure above the floor at the firing line. This requires a level floor and a surveyors instrument to mark the target heights down range. I am aware of many ranges where the floor isn't even close to being level yet alone level with the down range floor or ground.

A level floor is not required, if the floor slopes then the target height is simply altered to compensate. ISSF rules allow for that.

Rob.

Thanks for the correction. So the target height for each point would be measured off of that points elevation?

RobStubbs wrote:...A level floor is not required, if the floor slopes then the target height is simply altered to compensate. ISSF rules allow for that.

Rob.

"...ISSF rules allow for that" - do they????

6.3.9 applies to 10m - All target centers within a group of targets or range must have the same height (+/- 1 cm).

I think he means that target height would "seem lower" at one end of the range because the floor is lower on that end. In respect to the center of the Earth not all target heights are the same. Though in respect with the ground right under the target, all targets are 1.4m in height.

correct me if i understood wrong.

Spencer wrote:

RobStubbs wrote:...A level floor is not required, if the floor slopes then the target height is simply altered to compensate. ISSF rules allow for that.

Rob.

"...ISSF rules allow for that" - do they????

6.3.9 applies to 10m - All target centers within a group of targets or range must have the same height (+/- 1 cm).

6.3.9 actually also says "The center of the targets must be within the following heights when measured from the level of the floor of the firing point:"

Which was what everyone else was talking about. No one said anything about target centers being at different heights, it's obvious they need to be the same (when viewed from the firing point).

Rob.

Sigh!

this is not an 'OR' situation, it is an 'AND' situation

that implies you also HAVE to level the floor. no wonder we in the USA just shoot to NRA rules and get on with it.

RobStubb's interpretation seems to make the most sense for use in the real world. I appreciate other shooters more experience and insight.
Thanks.

Spencer wrote:Sigh!

this is not an 'OR' situation, it is an 'AND' situation

Double sigh.

Well it was you that stated I was wrong, when what I was describing was correct and the rules explained that. If you had simply put in your bit about target heights having to be the same height as each other that would have been clear.

Rob.

Triple sigh

apologies for letting the rules get in the way