TargetTalk

Hi, I used the 2.4 on the 50' target and there was just a "sliver" of white around the black -- scores were great, but the edge was a little foggy with 47 year old eyes (yikes!)... I shot a second relay with the 2.8 inserts but the scores were a little softer -- what are most people using for 50' indoor shoots? Thanks. :)

Standing 3.8 aperture
Prone/Kneeling 3.6 aperature
They are the champions choice plastic aperture, some people like the metal. If you don't shoot any ISU matches you can use actual adjustable front sight that has enlarger with it.

P.S. I am 30 and use shooting glasses... I have most of my kids (ages 12- 20) that I coach using 3.2-4.0 @ 50' indoor

Our juniors use 4.0 to 4.2 for standing (and everything else at first), then usually migrate to 3.8 prone. I use larger because of very poor eyes (glasses are thick enough to cut out significant light).

You will find you need to go bigger (to let in more light) as you age, unless you have excellent eyesight).

Yur'yev suggests total innere diameter to be apparently 1.5 time the aiming black, to help prevent both "burn in" and eyestrain.

Our juniors are using 6.0 mm and larger and they are not only scoring more tens, but the shots are more centered and they are getting them off faster.

The aperture diameter used is going to vary greatly due to the great difference in sight radius due to todays use of bloop tubes of various lengths. Many years ago this question might have been meaningful because everyone had about the same sight radius.

When i was 30 I shot prone ( at 50m) with 2.8 aperture ring.
With the age (61 now) i shoot with 3.8 prone and kneeling for the standing 4.1 or more in the start of season. plastic insert adjustable.
And 3.9 for the 300m prone.
For the 10m i use 4.1 (standing only in France). Plastic insert (stoper)
Gerhard

Thread revival 101

Is anyone shooting 50' (feet) with the champion inserts and if so, which size are you using?

I'm new to this discipline and have been using a 3.0 on a Kimber 82G while shooting at the A-17 & A-36 targets

Jim

3.0 is way too small, try a 3.8

I have to reiterate Paul's comment that this varies greatly. And not just sight radius, but light conditions as well. In a good bright range at 50ft, I use a 3.6/4.0/4.0 P/S/K. But my sight radii are 36"/32"/36". In darker conditions, I've bumped those sizes up 2 tenths on many occasions. And I've gone even bigger on extreme occasions such as approaching storms really making things dark.

I use the 3.0 insert and have spent time comparing results with 2.8, 3.2 and 3.4. Sight radius dictates what this actually means so to put this into terms that you can actually interpret, on my particualr rifle and sight radius if I place the bull in my front aperture so that it is touching the edge of the aperture, the bull extends to the center point of the aperture. So, it equals twice the diameter of the visual image of the bull. BTW, I am shooting at 50 yd, 50 meter, 100 yd and meter targets.

Over the years I have heard a number of metrics for front aperature selection. 1.5X the apparent size of the bull is a popular one. Another one is the bull will remain inside the aperature (will not touch the ring) during the best part of the hold or will remain inside the aperature 50% of the time during the best part of the hold. All have some merit or dismerit but will provide guidance for a good starting point. As the shooter develops this is just one more thing on the rifle that should be experimented with.

The idea that you can have a ring so small that you see just the tiniest sliver of light can create problems. Without going into the physics book, light has the tendency to bend around sharp corners so with a small aperature in prone a shooter can usually "see" a ring of white around the bull where none exists, or at least not the white paper around the bull.

Back before bloop tubes, on a standard Anschutz barrel in prone most people would report being in the low 3s, seldom smaller than 3.0. 3.2-3.4 seemed to be the "sweet spot". Offhand often in the high 3s. For kneeling I tended to use my prone aperature. (When I stopped shooting in the late 1990s I was using a 3.4 in prone so this was a nice general purpose slinged position aperature.)

As I have gotten back, eyes have aged and glasses are introduced 3.2 seems to be where I am going. At the same time, I am using a new prone postion so I am closer to the front sight. So perhaps the being closer to the front sight is also contributing to being more comfortable going down from my old 3.4 to a 3.2.

I am poking around with the idea that front sight size/appearance is not governed by "rear to front sight radius" but "eye to front sight radius". My line of reason goes something like this: In position you can move the rear sight fore and aft and the general appearance of the front sight does not change, only the field of view. Although the front sight is further away, if you change your position so the eye is closer to the front sight it will appear larger and vice versa. While aperature size is ultimately goverened by position stability, eyeball acuity, target lighting etc... a little math might help in selecting aperatures when working with extension tubes or other modified sight radius systems.

So that is my 2 cents.

'Dude

Good discussion -- reflecting what's been posted what about:
1) the use of an "eagle eye" (I'm currently using a .3) and a 4.2 (seems HUGE for this level)
2) color - I recently switch to the Anschutz inserts and for fun purchased some "yellow" inserts -- not popular with the better shooters at my club, but I like the contrast (but there is also "pink" and "smoke"). (For reference I have 1907 and a 6" hamerhead extension.

Dude -- light bending was an interesting approach - I have been looking for a "thin sliver" of white... perhaps I should back off and look to "center".... thanks for the input... have a good day.