TargetTalk

I'm starting a Jr rifle club and I need a safety net for an indoor range. The cloth would be used as a back drop behind the pellet traps for a just in case scenario. We will be using pellet guns and I was thinking a ballistic cloth could do the trick. It should be about 8ft tall and about 15 feet wide.

We will mostly be using target style guns with a velocity of 550 fps, but it would be nice if it would handle some of the new hunter models that shoot 1200 fps. I'm wondering also if a heavy canvas cloth might work. Maybe the kind painters use as a HD drop cloth.

Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

Contact Creedmore Sports,

They have a portable air gun range with a Kevlar curtain. I think they sell just parts of the system.

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/pr ... 423&page=1

I do not know if canvas will do much good for the low velocity target rifles, but I doubt it will do any good with the high velocity guns.

The high velocity guns may need something like a cinder block wall as a back stop.

How about 3/4" plywood or 1/4" lexan at 45 degrees as a backstop for the low velocity guns.

On a practical note, you may have to ban the high velocity guns, as too much power for your indoor range. This is really not much different than many indoor pistol ranges. You cannot shoot certain guns, as they are beyond the safety specs of the range. This is not being unfair, as where do you stop? You have to draw the line some place.

http://www.shopmaninc.com/cloth.html

This is what we use at The Ole Mill Range Complex in Griffin GA. I found some partial rolls at a fabric and awning supply story and they sold it to us for a very reasonable price. One of our parents sewed a small loop along one end and it hangs free from small electrical conduit sort of like a drape behind the pellet traps. It's absolutely critical that this drape hang free to dissipate the energy of any errant pellet. Some of our target Air Rifles get up to around 650fps and there is never a problem stopping them.

Any safety backstop hit by a 1200 fps pellet (at 90 degrees) will have to be steel (or very thick plywood) and something around 12 ga or thicker to survive. I've seen some of these "Hunter" type Air Rifles pierce concrete blocks with several hit's in the same spot.

The HD Canvas will barely stop BB's at 5 1/2 meters...

Roy McClain
(678) 772-8185 cell
www.OleMillRange.org

I suggest avoiding any wood products set at 90 degrees -- Wood is resilient and pellets will bounce back with surprising velocity. Wood products overlayed with steel will work, however. The pellet flattens out on the steel and drops almost straight down.

If this backstop is a safety backstop only (intended only to catch errant shots) then canvas over plywood might work if there were a gap between the wood and canvas. The pellet will penetrate the canvas on the way in, spend most of its energy on the wood, and, if it bounces back, will not be able to penetrate the canvas on the way out. But the wise rangemaster will test this before trusting its performance!

Hello, I'm new round these parts. I work for Crosman and we have a material we developed for our portable ranges. We sell the ranges through our EASY Program as complete kits or you can get the wall panels and baffles separate. We have put thousands of rounds down ranges and never had any problems.

If you are interested check out our EASY Program page on our site or give our customer service folks a call and ask for Beth.

http://www.crosman.com/airguns/easy

Hope this helps.

Joshua

Thanks for all the replies. Josh from Crosman - I've seen the Crosman portable shooting range and love it. I originally planned to buy just the long panels to hang and I believe they are worth the price, it's just that 4H doesn't have the money.

I was looking at Kevlar 745 fabric at 34.00 per yard From Armorco. Sounds resonable and here is the link.

http://armorco.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=2

I spoke to Armoco today and they said I could order a swatch to test out, but the fabric is intended to be layered depending on the application. For example, (and this is for illustration only, dont follow my word) 5 layers for 22.lr, 10 layers for 38spl, 20 layers for 357 mag, etc.

Josh from Crosman - I'll call tomorrow and see what the EASY program cost of just the panel is for 4H. The list price is over 500.00 for 15" and its out of our price range right now.

Thanks everyone - shoot safe

lovesbeer99 wrote:I'm starting a Jr rifle club and I need a safety net for an indoor range. The cloth would be used as a back drop behind the pellet traps for a just in case scenario. We will be using pellet guns . . . .

Has anyone suggested carpet remnants? As with any material you would have to do some testing but carpet remnants are inexpensive and I know they completely stop pellets at pistol velocities without any visible damage or stress to the carpet. A tight weave, low pile variety may well do the job for air rifle and not break your budget.

Lovesbeer99 ...

Is it not possible for you to build some Lujan style traps?
W/12ga steel backing, they will stop the fast shooters.

We're a 4-H club and we built these in groups of 3 until we had all we needed. They have been working for us for over 5 years now

Steel is a bit more expensive now, but we made ours for about $37 per lane.

Also, find your state NRA field rep and ask him about applying for grants ... I'm betting that money is there for the asking...

jhmartin wrote:Lovesbeer99 ...

Is it not possible for you to build some Lujan style traps?
W/12ga steel backing, they will stop the fast shooters.

We're a 4-H club and we built these in groups of 3 until we had all we needed. They have been working for us for over 5 years now

Steel is a bit more expensive now, but we made ours for about $37 per lane.

Also, find your state NRA field rep and ask him about applying for grants ... I'm betting that money is there for the asking...

www.OleMillRange.org / Important Questions & Ideas Corner

Ole Mill Target Stands
A few quick notes;
These stands were designed with the 3 x 20 Air Rifle event in mind. Six targets hung at one time. With that as our starting place, we found that you could also shoot Air Pistol as well as both Sporter and Precision Air Gun events on them. We have even had some success with BB, but that’s another matter for another day.
The basic materials list would include –
¾ inch sheet rock screws, 10 – 20 per stand, depending on your preference.
5-foot lengths of 2 inch, schedule 40 PVC Pipe. It’s usually easier to get a 10 footer and cut it in half. You’ll need 16 feet (each leg is 1 foot long, with a 20 inch piece across the back, on the ground) of 2 inch PVC per target stand.
I use two 90-degree elbows across the back to tighten the whole thing up, with the 20-inch connector across the back on the ground. The two “T”s are straight, and should not be anything else, such as clean outs, or “Y”s. This is the strength of your stand.
When you get the stand together, you may want to use up to 6 of the ¾ sheet rock screws to hold the PVC together in the elbows and “T”s. I chose to use PVC Cement on the legs into the “T”s and allow for the 5 foot sides and the 20 inch back cross to be removed for storage / transportation. It all folds into a very small package. I like the yellow pressure caps in the front legs to dress to project up a bit, they really don’t have a function other than esthetics. I added 4 sheet rock screws to the leg bottoms, outer edges, for leveling. We really don’t use this feature, but its there if we need it.
Galvanized 16-gage sheet steel. The top piece is 26 ¾ x 16, and the bottom is 26 ¾ x 30. I can’t emphases this enough, don’t use anything except Galvanized sheet steel. Anything else will rust and you’ll be very unhappy with the mess it will cause. If you want full coverage on the back of the stand, either go full coverage with the sheet steel (Ups the price significantly) or add ¾ inch plywood between the two and on the bottom if you think you need that much protection. We’ve been using this slightly open design for about 3 years and it’s been fine for us. You will want to pre drill the holes in the sheet steel (4 hole in the top, and 6 in the bottom) along the outer edge (We went with about 3/8 from the edges) and that can be a separate operation while you’re cutting the PVC. Plan on using a spring loaded center punch and breaking several drill bits. We made a jig to hole everything in place, but we were building 52 stands. For a smaller number, I might just lay two 2x4s on a table and drill there.
If you do build the jig, the stands are pretty uniform, and the process goes very fast.
NOTE – This will save you lots of time and aggravation.
Cutting the slot in the PVC for the cardboard was the missing link in this whole process. We went through about a dozen trial and error stands before we figured this one out. When you cut (Lengthwise) PVC, it contracts or shrinks. When you get ready to cut your side pieces, I recommend using a table saw with a fence, and either two blades, side by side, or a dado to cut the slot ¼ of an inch. You can make a 2 x 4 guide and screw it (Three screws seemed to work fine) to the PVC so that it holds is all slides evenly and straight (A crooked cut, means throw that side away and start over…) thru saw blade. Most PVC Pipe has lettering on it and surprisingly enough it’s straight enough to use
as a guide. Here’s the magic of the whole operation. Stop, read this then read it again! Do not cut the side all the way from end to end. Put a stop mark 6 inches from the bottom, or better yet, put a mechanical stop on your table saw so that the side only goes through 4 ½ feet. That along with the ¼ inch cut will allow the PVC to hold the cardboard firmly, but not too tight. If you cut completely from end to end, throw that side away…
A word on acquiring materials. Cost will vary from location to location as well as with your supporters. We paid for some of our Galvanized Sheet steel and got some donated. Over the course of a couple of years, as we grew, the price of 16 gage Galvanized Sheet Steel tripled in price. That’s one of the factors in the sizes we used, what could we cut out of a large sheet, with the best price we could get at the time we needed it. PVC Pipe and the Elbows and “T”s were mostly given to us by a friendly Plumbing Supply and Local Plumber. Free is hard to beat. We did go to Lowe’s and Home Depot for a few odds and ends and they would give us Wholesale, but that was it. Even if you pay cost to a Local Plumbing Supply, it’s about half of what’s marked at the big Home Care Stores. Just depends on your budget and number of stands. Don’t forget to mark your Target Heights per the Rule Book. You’ll note the black center marks in the photos. Center the two Sighter Bulls on the black marks and you should be legal.
5.5.4 Target Heights
Target holders on the range must facilitate the placement of the targets at the correct height. Correct target heights, when measured from the level of the firing point to the center of the target are:
Prone position 0.5 meters (19.7 in.) (± 10 cm. or 4 in.)
Standing position 1.4 meter (55 in.) (± 5 cm. or 2 in.)
Kneeling position 0.8 meters (31.5 in.) (± 10 cm. or 4 in.)
One more item of some interest and concern. Light, and how to get enough of it on the targets. After years of trial and error and experimentation, we’ve come to the conclusion that the only way to meet the 1000 lums is to have one, (300 – 500 watt light) shining on each target stand. If you use the long halogen bulbs, it’s best to have them vertical to the target stand. You get the best light dispersion on all the targets on the frame with the bulb at about 24 – 30 inches off the floor and between 5 and 7 feet away from the targets. You can place the Lights so that they are between firing points at the Targets and they will be completely out of the shooters line of sight. Light Meters are cheap and easy to come by. Measure your light in your facility and see what you have.
If you have any questions, I’d be only too happy to assist you.
Roy McClain
EODTNT1@aol.com
(678) 772-8185 cell
Spalding County 4H - The Ole Mill Range Complex – Griffin GA

My club purchased the Creedmoor airgun range. It is a fine piece of work. The range sets up and dismantles easily. Usually it is left set up in our club but I have taken it to several airgun demo's. It has withstood hundreds of shots from a Sportsmen's Show where the kids were pelting the backstop with pellets. Occasionally they would hit the intended paper target. There were no pellets bouncing back. I recommend this range highly.

Rick

Blimey, Kevlar? Carbon Fibre? Steel sheets? We're talking airguns here right?

I would have thought a good bed sheet with a high thread count, hung as a double-layer curtain (i.e. 2-ply, loose at the bottom and allowed to concertina/hanging slightly scrunched up on the rail to offset the angle of impact, not pulled tight at the sides) would have stopped target air pellets (i.e. those with flat faces). Point-nosed ones are a different matter of course, but if it's a target range primarily for target shooting you have to draw the line somewhere. It might not be suited for higher powered hunter guns, but adequate for your average 10m target air rifle or pistol certainly. I assume life is not dependent on this curtain, it's just to stop the rear wall getting damaged.

If you need more, carpet offcuts should do the job. A good heavy canvas back and a soft energy-absorbing weave at the front.

Or else a hybrid. Sheet at the front to stop splash back, and carpet behind to absorb the pellets.
It won't self-heal like Linatex or ballistic curtains, but cheap sheets can be bought for a few pounds - much less than Linatex or Kevlar - and if they're only for flyers and occasional shots, not as a regular backstop for every shot, then they won't degrade or get that shot-up that fast anyway (depending on the standard of your kids!).

As has been mentioned, wood is a total non-starter. Those suckers will turn around and come right back uprange at you.
If you must use wood for things like supports (if you can't obtain plastic tubing or the like), cover it in pipe insulation foam tubing to alleviate rebounds.

Curtains and offcuts won't look pretty, but if you're on a budget then such a home-build will be cheaper than the retail systems suggested sofar, which leaves more money for guns and pellets!

Of course this comes with the proviso that it's just a net for occasional shots that miss the target and pellet catcher, not as the main pellet catching method behind the targets.

Double-hung sheets or carpet off-cuts should be all you need for a safety net to catch the odd outright miss.

Hi Roy,
Would you have any pictures to share? I tried to follow every steps of how to build the backstop but... It would be easier to do if we would have pictures. Thanks for all the info.
Daniel

[quote="GCSInc"][quote="jhmartin"]Lovesbeer99 ...

Is it not possible for you to build some Lujan style traps?
W/12ga steel backing, they will stop the fast shooters.

We're a 4-H club and we built these in groups of 3 until we had all we needed. They have been working for us for over 5 years now

Steel is a bit more expensive now, but we made ours for about $37 per lane.

Also, find your state NRA field rep and ask him about applying for grants ... I'm betting that money is there for the asking...[/quote]

http://www.OleMillRange.org / Important Questions & Ideas Corner

Ole Mill Target Stands
A few quick notes;
These stands were designed with the 3 x 20 Air Rifle event in mind. Six targets hung at one time. With that as our starting place, we found that you could also shoot Air Pistol as well as both Sporter and Precision Air Gun events on them. We have even had some success with BB, but that’s another matter for another day.
The basic materials list would include –
¾ inch sheet rock screws, 10 – 20 per stand, depending on your preference.
5-foot lengths of 2 inch, schedule 40 PVC Pipe. It’s usually easier to get a 10 footer and cut it in half. You’ll need 16 feet (each leg is 1 foot long, with a 20 inch piece across the back, on the ground) of 2 inch PVC per target stand.
I use two 90-degree elbows across the back to tighten the whole thing up, with the 20-inch connector across the back on the ground. The two “T”s are straight, and should not be anything else, such as clean outs, or “Y”s. This is the strength of your stand.
When you get the stand together, you may want to use up to 6 of the ¾ sheet rock screws to hold the PVC together in the elbows and “T”s. I chose to use PVC Cement on the legs into the “T”s and allow for the 5 foot sides and the 20 inch back cross to be removed for storage / transportation. It all folds into a very small package. I like the yellow pressure caps in the front legs to dress to project up a bit, they really don’t have a function other than esthetics. I added 4 sheet rock screws to the leg bottoms, outer edges, for leveling. We really don’t use this feature, but its there if we need it.
Galvanized 16-gage sheet steel. The top piece is 26 ¾ x 16, and the bottom is 26 ¾ x 30. I can’t emphases this enough, don’t use anything except Galvanized sheet steel. Anything else will rust and you’ll be very unhappy with the mess it will cause. If you want full coverage on the back of the stand, either go full coverage with the sheet steel (Ups the price significantly) or add ¾ inch plywood between the two and on the bottom if you think you need that much protection. We’ve been using this slightly open design for about 3 years and it’s been fine for us. You will want to pre drill the holes in the sheet steel (4 hole in the top, and 6 in the bottom) along the outer edge (We went with about 3/8 from the edges) and that can be a separate operation while you’re cutting the PVC. Plan on using a spring loaded center punch and breaking several drill bits. We made a jig to hole everything in place, but we were building 52 stands. For a smaller number, I might just lay two 2x4s on a table and drill there.
If you do build the jig, the stands are pretty uniform, and the process goes very fast.
NOTE – This will save you lots of time and aggravation.
Cutting the slot in the PVC for the cardboard was the missing link in this whole process. We went through about a dozen trial and error stands before we figured this one out. When you cut (Lengthwise) PVC, it contracts or shrinks. When you get ready to cut your side pieces, I recommend using a table saw with a fence, and either two blades, side by side, or a dado to cut the slot ¼ of an inch. You can make a 2 x 4 guide and screw it (Three screws seemed to work fine) to the PVC so that it holds is all slides evenly and straight (A crooked cut, means throw that side away and start over…) thru saw blade. Most PVC Pipe has lettering on it and surprisingly enough it’s straight enough to use
as a guide. Here’s the magic of the whole operation. Stop, read this then read it again! Do not cut the side all the way from end to end. Put a stop mark 6 inches from the bottom, or better yet, put a mechanical stop on your table saw so that the side only goes through 4 ½ feet. That along with the ¼ inch cut will allow the PVC to hold the cardboard firmly, but not too tight. If you cut completely from end to end, throw that side away…
A word on acquiring materials. Cost will vary from location to location as well as with your supporters. We paid for some of our Galvanized Sheet steel and got some donated. Over the course of a couple of years, as we grew, the price of 16 gage Galvanized Sheet Steel tripled in price. That’s one of the factors in the sizes we used, what could we cut out of a large sheet, with the best price we could get at the time we needed it. PVC Pipe and the Elbows and “T”s were mostly given to us by a friendly Plumbing Supply and Local Plumber. Free is hard to beat. We did go to Lowe’s and Home Depot for a few odds and ends and they would give us Wholesale, but that was it. Even if you pay cost to a Local Plumbing Supply, it’s about half of what’s marked at the big Home Care Stores. Just depends on your budget and number of stands. Don’t forget to mark your Target Heights per the Rule Book. You’ll note the black center marks in the photos. Center the two Sighter Bulls on the black marks and you should be legal.
5.5.4 Target Heights
Target holders on the range must facilitate the placement of the targets at the correct height. Correct target heights, when measured from the level of the firing point to the center of the target are:
Prone position 0.5 meters (19.7 in.) (± 10 cm. or 4 in.)
Standing position 1.4 meter (55 in.) (± 5 cm. or 2 in.)
Kneeling position 0.8 meters (31.5 in.) (± 10 cm. or 4 in.)
One more item of some interest and concern. Light, and how to get enough of it on the targets. After years of trial and error and experimentation, we’ve come to the conclusion that the only way to meet the 1000 lums is to have one, (300 – 500 watt light) shining on each target stand. If you use the long halogen bulbs, it’s best to have them vertical to the target stand. You get the best light dispersion on all the targets on the frame with the bulb at about 24 – 30 inches off the floor and between 5 and 7 feet away from the targets. You can place the Lights so that they are between firing points at the Targets and they will be completely out of the shooters line of sight. Light Meters are cheap and easy to come by. Measure your light in your facility and see what you have.
If you have any questions, I’d be only too happy to assist you.
Roy McClain
EODTNT1@aol.com
(678) 772-8185 cell
Spalding County 4H - The Ole Mill Range Complex – Griffin GA[/quote]

Hi Roy (from Ole Mill Range Complex),

Would you have any pictures (the backstop you built) to share? I tried to follow every steps of how to build your backstop but... It would be easier to do if we would have pictures. Thanks for all the info.
Daniel

WOW --- old thread .... some comments:

TRAPS
Every once in a while a shooter will hit the side support of our Lujan traps (note we are using sporter & precision airguns ... 600fps tops).
In those cases with the soft pine support the pellet just embeds.
We had some PVC supports (sch40), but found that a hit just right can shatter the PVC ... not hard to replace, but time consuming.
I still (after about 11 years now) like our Lujan style traps. We even use a modified version to hold the cardboard for our smallbore range.
Nothing more than 650 fps is allowed on our airgun range.

Halogen lights.
Both our ranges (airgun & smallbore) have halogen and high brightness incandescent floods. The only problem I have with these is when I'm using a SCATT system. These lights just put off too much infrared and really mess up the SCATT. We have a few lanes where we can turn off the halogens & floods and use the new LED bulbs. It's pretty amazing how much/bright light you can get from these at very low current flows. They are expensive though. I'm always trolling the local Home Depot and Lowes for their sales. Seems like when a "new/improved" version of these LEDS come out they sell off the older versions for reasonable prices. These are excellent bulbs to use with lighting the SCATT systems.
I'm also replacing all of the regular lighting bulbs in the range with LEDs as we can afford them. We got snookered into those florescent bulbs a few years ago and I hate them in the winter ... takes them about 15 minutes to totally warm up & give good light.

For shots that have missed the pellet catcher Archery nets will work really well. The place I used to work we would dual use the indoor achery range. Mostly just using old BSA Meteros running at under 600 fps. I did test with my 800 fps (12 fpe/16J) Air Arms S400 in .177, and the net comfortably caught round nose pellets at 10m. Actually it was a great way of collecting an otherwise undamaged fired pellet.

We did try out a 120 lb compund bow in that range at 30m. One arrow missed the target went through the safety net and then 4" into the cement joint between the block wall. We had to cut that arrow off flush. Good job you couldn't see the damage normally.

Alan