TargetTalk

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html

Could those technique be applicable to 10m pistol?

Given that all 10m competition folks here are concerned about is shot one handed, a lot of it isn't applicable. Proper sight alignment & trigger squeeze are pretty much that same for any handgun.

90% of the article is:

1. Spot-on true
2. Applicable to all handgun shooting
3. Widely available and repeated in shooting clinics/books/web sites all around the world
4. Uniformly ignored by the vast majority of shooters

O.K., so why is it so easy to explain how to shoot properly . . . and so hard to actually accept, internalize, and execute?

Not a rhetorical question . . . !

Steve

Fortunately I rarely disagree with Steve but on this matter I stand in the negative side. You have to analyze carefully the contribution of each finger provides to the proper grip for a sensitive target situation, as in target shooting specially AP & FP. While in any Tactical situation, thumb placement is not a hastily achieved position either. I can see many scenarios wherein the improper position of the thumb can create more shooting anomalies, due to a loss of balanced pressure on the grip. This is a study in kinesiology that would be interesting to look into. I will not take any further space on the issue because I would have to investigate further in order to reaffirm my concepts. I have spent many years looking at the contribution of the small finger in the overall grip and have been convinced for quite awhile that it can create many issues with shooting anomalies. This will be an interesting thesis to investigate. "Doc"

Bob,
I don't understand the nature of your disagreement with Steve and with Ayoob's article. The article is directed at shooters using big bore pistols in action shooting disciplines, but the underlying principles apply to other pistol shooting disciplines. In the case of grip, where does Ayoob say that a combat shooter needn't bother with analyzing the forces that his fingers/thumb are applying to the gun? The objective, as he points out The key is this: keep the sights straight in line. Isn't this what we tell new AP/FP shooters - that their grip should be such that the sights are aligned when the pistol is brought up to the eye and stay aligned throughout the firing process?

Steve - I think it is a question of time spent. If the 'average' shooter spent as much time shooting as he does driving his car, he would be an excellent shot. Shooters in World Cup/Olympic class spend more time shooting and training than they do driving their cars.

Fred:

Agreed- but you've never seen my daughter drive!

Kidding aside, a better analogy would be NASCAR/Formula V etc. driving.

I think that Yes, while "Quantity has a Quality all it's own" the role of *properly applied* training time is more of an issue than training "time" itself.

If you are working on the wrong things, all "more training time" gives you is harder to break bad habits.

Anyhow, I'm probably quibbling but I think the best "team" shooters are good not just because of the amount of time they spend shooting.

My point is that you (me, whomever) can get "very good" (570s) with no more than 1 hour a day.

Of *FOCUSED* effort.

More time than that may actuall be wasted (best case) or lead to overuse injuries/developing bad habits . . .

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:
My point is that you (me, whomever) can get "very good" (570s) with no more than 1 hour a day.

Of *FOCUSED* effort.

More time than that may actuall be wasted (best case) or lead to overuse injuries/developing bad habits . . .

Are you talking about going from 0 to 570 putting in no more 1 hr /day?
Do you have data/examples to support that argument?

Or are you talking about going from 540 to 570 putting in less than 7 hrs/week? That's possible. Also a good point about overtraining and injury.

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:My point is that you (me, whomever) can get "very good" (570s) with no more than 1 hour a day.

"Very good" is a relative term Steve. At local level, or in some cases National level, then 570 might be very good. Internationally it is nowhere.

As you are probably aware, if you take the average for all of the World Cups in 2008/9, it would only have placed you in 42nd place.

In that same selection, an average of 581.6 was required to get in to the final.

Those sort of scores take way more than 1 hour per day, whether it be in shooting, physical or mental training.

this is my thumb position which when viewed in this picture doesn't look as down as it really is and i have no problems with it i find if i have my thumb straight then it sticks out away from the pistol

If the thumb position is comfortable and you can achieve consistent results, then there is not a problem.
From the photo, does your thumb-ring exert adverse pressure and create long term discomfort?
One other small observation, in some competitions, if you shoot with your watch on your right wrist, you could be asked to remove the watch as it could be deemed to be providing additional wrist support.

hi john
no my thumb ring is not a problem and the bracelet on my wrist is just a copper one well two actually one with magnets on as i had a motor cycle accident many years ago and lost a part of the back of my hand near my wrist this causes me arthritis type symptoms the bracelets seem to help it could all be psychological but for me they work and i have no pain but i will watch out for this in future
Will

seamaster wrote: Could those technique be applicable to 10m pistol?

Why not? See here, page 11 of the pdf, at the bottom of the page, right side, it is one of the top-shooters.
http://www.uits.it/Gestionale/AllegatiP ... e_2009.pdf

MAURO BADARACCHI

seems we have the same style of hand grip must be my italian roots yet i dont remember seeing his grip when i watched him in the Olympic's on the issf tele