TargetTalk

First off an introduction. I've been shooting for about the last 6 years, however none of it has been of the traditional target variety until recently. I can hammer out A zone hits all day long on an IDPA or IPSC classifier, and run a live fire shot house clean, but put me in front of a bulls eye target at 25m's and it all starts to go down hill. I'm looking at improving my accuracy when shooting at distance (ie 25 meters+) and the Olympic style disciplines appear to be perfect to do that. I own several "target" style rimfire pistols (S&W 622, and a Browning Buckmark 4" barrel), but nothing close to a purpose built match pistol.

So several questions:
1) After doing research into 10m air pistol I think this will be a good start to my quest for better accuracy. I've seen recommendations for multiple different pistols ranging from <$100 Daisy pistols to >$2K for the high end Olympic grade models. I'm currently looking at the Gamo Compact, and the Biakal IZH-46M. The Gamo runs about a $100 or so cheaper new then the 46M from what I've seen. Are there any cons to the Gamo? From all the reading I've done the IZH is a fine pistol that will take me pretty far in terms of shooting ability before I might look at other options out there.

2) For folks who shoot in there own home with their air pistols, is it loud enough to require hearing protection? The wife certainly will NOT go for it if it is, requiring an adjustment on my pellet trap construction to make it suitable for the back yard.

3) As far as 25 m Sport pistol and 25 m Center fire pistol are concerned, are most pistol capable of converting between the different calibers (.22lr to .32 long)? Ideally I'd like to be able to shoot both, and not have to get 2 different pistols.

4) With the wide variety of sport pistols out there, I'll admit to being overwhelmed with choices. So I'm asking for some general advice on where to start looking. Ideally I'd like to keep my initial investment in the pistol to around $500-800 if purchased new. I'd like to be able to utilize the same pistol for the most disciplines possible (25 m Sport, 25 m Centerfire, and Rapid fire). However if it comes down to it, 25 m sport is what I'll concentrate on first. I know a whole lot of choosing a pistol is what feels good in the hand, and I'm sure this is even doubly more important here. However general recommendations on where to start would be most helpful.

5) Any thoughts or opinions on the Walther SP22 M4? A gun shop in my area has one for sale new at $707. From the reading I've been doing it appears to be nothing more then there SP22 w/ a 6" barrel, a set of target grips, and a bad trigger. If this is way off base I'd however like to know as I can actually handle it to see how it feels in my hand.

Thanks for your time in advance,

-Jenrick

jenrick wrote:I'm currently looking at the Gamo Compact, and the Biakal IZH-46M. The Gamo runs about a $100 or so cheaper new then the 46M from what I've seen. Are there any cons to the Gamo?

Here in the UK the Gamo Compact was at one time a favourite for scout groups. It was cheap. It was also responsible for many teenagers leaving the sport. The trigger on the standard gun is, IMHO, terrible (and I've seen quite a few). I have been told that it is possible to work on them to get an improvement, but I've never seen any real proof of that.

jenrick wrote:As far as 25 m Sport pistol and 25 m Center fire pistol are concerned, are most pistol capable of converting between the different calibers (.22lr to .32 long)? Ideally I'd like to be able to shoot both, and not have to get 2 different pistols.

Most do not have the ability to convert. Whilst there have been attempts by Hammerli and Sako (and possibly others) to make convertable match guns the only one that has really stood the test of time is the Walther GSP.

Taking your points in order...

The Izh-46 is an excellent mid-grade pistol. I'd go with that over the Gamo.

Hearing protection is not required for AP indoors. A lot of us use it for matches just to block out distractions, but I personally don't bother when practicing at home.

Convertible calibers are expensive. Yes, you can get a Walther GSP or a Hammerli 280, but they aren't cheap. A lot of people use a separate gun for each event.

As to an SP22 for $700, I would run (not walk) away. If you go to the Pilkington Competition website, go to the Hitchiker's Guide, and look up Standard Pistols, you will find a fairly comprehensive review of what is out there and the relative quality. In your price range, you should be able to find a used S&W Model 41 or a High Standard that is in good shape. Or a Baikal Izh-35.

That being said, I strongly recommend saving your pennies for a high-end gun. It's like going from a Fiat to a Ferarri.

All right so the IZH-46 it is over the Gamo, easy enough.

Well I figured getting one pistol to do everything would be a very expensive proposition. Worth asking though.

Now to down some more reading and looking at shops in the area about what sport pistol to go for. Does anyone know i f International Shooters Service in Fort Worth TX is a brick and mortar store? My in-laws live in Irving so I could go there when we go visit them for the holidays if they are. That would give me the opportunity to handle the pistols and see what I like.

After doing some checking in a few out of the way places, is a IZH-35M in 98% or so condition for $400 something I should just jump on rather then looking for a better deal?

Thanks,
-Jenrick[/i]

jenrick wrote:After doing some checking in a few out of the way places, is a IZH-35M in 98% or so condition for $400 something I should just jump on rather then looking for a better deal?

If I saw one in prime condition at that price, I'd buy it. I bought my 35M new for $525 about 7 or so years ago and the prices have only gone up since then.

Apparently I was the 2nd person to see it today. Just got off the phone, and it has been taken. Oh well, such is life.

-Jenrick

Jenrick

ISS in Ft Worth is a brick and mortar location. Call before hand and ask what pistols he has in stock. I would also call in advance of your going to ISS for security reasons. Neal is great to deal with, honest, and a great fellow!

Come see us in the woods.
Jack

Jack, thanks just what I wanted to hear. Might be going up there as early as mid-October, like an early Christmas.

-Jenrick

As was left unsaid...anything GAMO is crap.

For only a little more money than a new IZH46M would cost, you could have a used FWB2, Pardini K60, or Walther CP2 or 3...all great guns of far higher quality.

For little money, I have seen Ruger MKIIs (cost ca. $250) that were fitted with good grips and had a trigger job that have done great shooting.

Neal at ISS might have some grips for one cheap and could perhaps do a trigger job for you.

Did you read this post?

viewtopic.php?t=22774

Rover: Yes I had actually been following that post with interest since it had a lot of information pertinent to me. Hmm good point about spending a little more to move up if I'm willing to go used, which I more then am. The only problem with that is I have no clue what to look for in the higher end pistols, or how to determine if it's in good condition etc. I think the most I could budget right now would be about $500-$600 for an air pistol. Are there those kinds of deals on used pistols floating around?

-Jenrick

You should be able to find any of the guns I mentioned for MUCH less than $500.

The guys on here would give you a straight answer regarding condition, but for $100 you could get a rebuild.

I didn't mention my personal favorite (good grips, great trigger), the Pardini K58. You wouldn't need any extras with it.

I called Pilkgintons and bought both of my APs used from them. A Pardini K58 and a Walther CPM-1. I am very satisfied with both of them.
Having used the Pardini, for an SSP pistol, I would bypass the IZH-46 for a Pardini. I was going to stop with the Pardini, but tendonities drove me to a gas pistol so I got the Walther. Pilkgtons stands behind their used guns, so no worries about buying used from them.

I use an ear muff when I shoot AP. Even though it is NOT loud, it is loud enough to induce a flinch. The muff eliminates this. Also depends on how much sound reflection/absorbtion your shooting room has.

Lots of new info. I guess I should probably just call Pilkgintons and ISS talk to the folks there, and see what they've got in stock then regarding AP's.

Does the situation of higher end pistols for sale at much lower prices also extend to SP/CFP? I can part with a few pistols from my collection to fund new acquisitions if so, I just don't have enough to cover a $2K+ pistol.

-Jenrick

viewtopic.php?t=23075

May still be available.


For .22 I would go with Mike M. and look for a short barreled High Standard or S&W 41 if you don't like the Ruger idea.

I wanted to mention one additional problem with the pistols that convert from .22 to .32. These pistols are built for international Center fire and they shoot well at 25 meters. After that it gets dicy. Without a special barrel it may not have the accuracy you want past 25 meters. A lot of people that I have seen use them at Camp Perry have had some function problems. I understand from the people that use them a lot is that they can be very tricky to reload for. If the ammunition is not just about perfect you will have feeding problems.

As far as air pistols, my Steyr LP-10 is pretty loud. Don't need hearing protection but am maybe on the edge of it. However, my multi shot LP-50 is much quieter. Isabel

My K2 is quite loud, but I shoot in the basement directly below the living room where everyone else is usually watching TV and no one really notices.

I do have a duct seal type trap and it's pretty quiet

Steve.

When you go to select a pistol by far the most important issue is that when you raise the pistol from the ready position just as you reach your hold area on the target the sights should come into perfect allignment . Next in importance is a trigger that is compatible with your technique or can be adjusted enough to allow a perfectly straight application of pressure that does not cause any misalignment of the sights to discharge the gun. Best wishes, Good Shooting Bill Horton

Rover: Saw that, was gonna shoot out an email.

Isabel1130: Thanks for the info. 25m is about as far out as I want to go at the moment. Do you happen to know what it is the tend to cause the problems, wrong OAL, odd ogive of the bullet, etc?

Ideally I'd love to be able to to handle and dry fire or shoot the different models out there, but to my knowledge there isn't much of an Olympic style pistol community here in Austin. I may have to check with a buddy that used to be on the UT shooting team and see what they have available.

-Jenrick

I shoot air pistols and rifles both in my basement (6 meter range) and in the garage (10 meter range) at all hours of the day or night. No one even notices.

My wife says that late at night, after all the kids are in bed and the TV/stereo are off she can hear the shots if she really listens, but it isn't even as loud as the ticking of the clock on the wall. I do use putty traps in both locations and I think that helps.

I've got springer, SSP and CO2 pistols as well as springer and CO2 rifles (SSP on order, but isn't here yet). These are all pretty quiet; I have no PCP airguns to compare with. I suspect PCP might well be a bit louder, though I don't think by much. The pistols are slightly louder than the rifles with equivalent power sources, it seems to me.

That's the greatest thing about airguns, in my opinion. They're quiet enough that you can shoot in your own house without bothering anyone. This makes for very convenient and relatively quick practice sessions--anytime day or night.

People on the bullseye L list have said that some bullets shoot and others do not. I think one of the problems with the .32s is that they are very picky about crimp and OAL. If you want to know the ins and outs of loading for .32 and you acquire a .32 conversion I would suggest joining the Bullseye-L list and ask for help with reloading. People on that board are very helpful and will give you all sorts of good suggestions. I tried to search the archive and come up with some definitive answers but the archives have been truncated and do not go back far enough for me to find what I was looking for. http://lava.net/~perrone/bullseye/
Isabel