TargetTalk

RWS Club .177 Cal, 7.0 Grains, Wadcutter,

RWS Diabolo Basic .177 Cal, 7.0 Grains, Wadcutter

RWS Hobby .177 Cal, 7.0 Grains, Wadcutter

Any one know the difference between these three comparably priced pellets from RWS? Or maybe the better question, for a non-olympic class shooter, is there any difference between these $6/tin pellets and the $11/tin RWS R-10 pellets?





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I can't speak to the quality of the Club or Basic Pellets, but I can say that the Hobby pellets (geriffelt, unlike the glatt Club or Basic) work fine for practice and league level matches. From my Morini 162E, SAM K-11, SAM K-14, and Steyr LP-10, they shoot groups that average 10.5 (unlike the 10.8-10.9 groups produced by R-10, Finale Match, and Vogel Match.) I have broken into the 570's a few times shooting them in all of the aforementioned pistols. I would imagine that the Club and Basic perform very similarly. I get the Hobby pellets for about $5 a tin, so they make great practice pellets. I'd say that in the last 2500 Hobby pellets I have taken from their tin, maybe a total of 4 or 5 were deform to a degree that made them unusable.

As far as bargain pellets go, I've even had good results with the Gamo Match pellets, which perform very much like the RWS Hobby pellets at the same or ever so slightly cheaper price. I have encounter the same ratio of deformities as the Hobby, so that is not an issue. Both styles are clean, shiny, and bright. The riffling is a bit more course on the Gamo pellets, but it doesn't seem to matter indoors at 10m.

As has been discussed many times here, you either really won't or really can't notice a difference between $12 pellets and $5 pellets, until you get into the high 570s on a regular basis. The good thing is that the less expensive pellets might help you get there sooner.

zollman

zollman wrote:I can't speak to the quality of the Club or Basic Pellets, but I can say that the Hobby pellets (geriffelt, unlike the glatt Club or Basic) work fine for practice and league level matches. From my Morini 162E, SAM K-11, SAM K-14, and Steyr LP-10, they shoot groups that average 10.5 (unlike the 10.8-10.9 groups produced by R-10, Finale Match, and Vogel Match.) I have broken into the 570's a few times shooting them in all of the aforementioned pistols. I would imagine that the Club and Basic perform very similarly. I get the Hobby pellets for about $5 a tin, so they make great practice pellets. I'd say that in the last 2500 Hobby pellets I have taken from their tin, maybe a total of 4 or 5 were deform to a degree that made them unusable.

As far as bargain pellets go, I've even had good results with the Gamo Match pellets, which perform very much like the RWS Hobby pellets at the same or ever so slightly cheaper price. I have encounter the same ratio of deformities as the Hobby, so that is not an issue. Both styles are clean, shiny, and bright. The riffling is a bit more course on the Gamo pellets, but it doesn't seem to matter indoors at 10m.

As has been discussed many times here, you either really won't or really can't notice a difference between $12 pellets and $5 pellets, until you get into the high 570s on a regular basis. The good thing is that the less expensive pellets might help you get there sooner.

zollman

Thanks for the details. Sounds like you can't go wrong with the RWS Hobby Pellets. Wonder why RWS decided to name the pellets "Hobby"? Kind of an "un-serious" name that might turn off amateur AP shooters that are looking for an inexpensive 'competition' grade pellet.

Side question: Does anyone online sell both RWS Hobby Pellets and Edelmann 10m AP targets - or alternatively Krueger Targets?

OK Joe,

Time to walk the walk.

Make a jig to hold your pistol for accuracy testing and chronographing and then YOU tell US what the difference is!

I would personally be fascinated with your personal results since it might reduce pellet costs up to 70% and boost scores, too.

Or not.

Last week someone had a chronographer set up in my club, so I shot some Gamo Match: variations from 380 to 405 fps.

Then some RWS R10. Higher speed, all the ten shots had the same speed (maybe 390 some, don't remember exactly.)

will set up a vise and the chronograph (if the owner agrees, that is) and test accuracy and speed in our group of shooters. Results will be shared with you.

This is the second lot of Gamos I buy, and it seems less uniform than the previous. unfortunately, none left from the firs lot to test.

Here in Brazil the Gamos can cost from US$5 to 8 at the shops, and RWS's are not sold at all. When someone offers (don't ask how it came incountry. Some miracle of technology, I figure...) they try to sell at 25 US per tin of 500.

Rover wrote:OK Joe,

Time to walk the walk.

Make a jig to hold your pistol for accuracy testing and chronographing and then YOU tell US what the difference is!

I would personally be fascinated with your personal results since it might reduce pellet costs up to 70% and boost scores, too.

Or not.

Chill. Since I don't yet have high confidence in my used Pardini K58, I wanted to start out with a few tins of the better ammo (RWS R-10's) and find out whether there might be any initial problems that could possibly be confounded or masked by lower quality ammo. Once I build up enough confidence in my K58 over the next week or so, then I was planning on switching to the somewhat lower cost RWS "Hobby" pellets.

Of the three 'budget' RWS Pellets mentioned, the RWS "Hobby" pellets seem to be preferred as mentioned both above and in a few other threads. Makes sense, since the Hobby pellets are the most "expensive" of the three.

The one minor annoyance with the RWS Hobby Pellets or any of the RWS pellets - is the inability to also order high quality targets (e.g., Edelmann or Krueger's) from the same online supplier. Of course, it's easy enough to separately order Edelmann targets from Pilkguns (which I have). It's just too bad that the lower cost Vogel Sport pellets (orange tin) from Pilkguns didn't seem to work out in the K58.

Try International Shooters Service in Fort Worth, Texas. Neal should have both in stock.

Good Luck,

zollman

Hello Joe, There is no difference in performance except price. I have used all three
pellets in seven different air pistols, and the Basics will hit just as many or just as few
inner and outer tens. I buy the Basics for $4.21 a tin. Why would I pay $6.00 a
tin for the Hobbys? I get closer speed difference with JSB and Finale Match pellets,
but I score the same on the targets. I interrupt my practice/training sessions
with enjoyable intermissions, shooting and flattening the Basics on swinger silhouette
targets that are set up at proper distances on my backyard ten meter course.
I don't want to waste the JSB and Finale Match pellets on plinking.
Yes, I know it has been said by elite shooters, dead and alive, that the very
best pellets are so cheap that everyone should use them for practice also.
I can't deny they are correct....but they don't improve my score yet....
Enjoy whatever you use;

Tony G

OK Joe,
Just so you know I'm not just talking....I just got off the phone ordering a sleeve each of Hobby and Basic, plus a tin of Meisterkugeln Light and R10 Light.

I'll test 'em just 'cause I like to play, then I'll use them for practice. I already have a large batch of pellets I use just for matches because they cost more. That MUST make them more accurate! (Just like our politicians...the more they cost to buy, the better they are.)

Of course this is totally irrelevant to YOUR gun.

$47 for the Hobby's, $40 for the Basic's, plus postage ($10) and $2 for the beer I drank while posting this.

Hobby Pellets FTW! When I shoot in the finals at the World Cup, I'm going to use Hobby Pellets to make a statement ;-)

Rover, I'm very interested in hearing your results when the lead dust settles.

Oz

Rover wrote:OK Joe,
Just so you know I'm not just talking....I just got off the phone ordering a sleeve each of Hobby and Basic, plus a tin of Meisterkugeln Light and R10 Light.

I'll test 'em just 'cause I like to play, then I'll use them for practice. I already have a large batch of pellets I use just for matches because they cost more. That MUST make them more accurate! (Just like our politicians...the more they cost to buy, the better they are.)

Of course this is totally irrelevant to YOUR gun.

$47 for the Hobby's, $40 for the Basic's, plus postage ($10) and $2 for the beer I drank while posting this.

Meisterkugeln Light and R10 Light, I'm not familar with those brands of light beer. You might want to check your spelling :)

I was once told by a very good shooter, that one of his goals was to shoot well enough that ammunition would actually make a difference. That said, if you get better groups out of one particular pellet, verses another, why use the other?

I have found my AP 'likes' RWS Hobby pellets better than RWS Basics. Why? I don't know. According to the chart below, they should be virtually the same. But I get better groups with the Hobby's and fewer fliers.

http://www.straightshooters.com/documen ... rison.html

Imported German or Belgian beer is the only proper quaff for air pistol shooters. Light beer is for wusses!

Over the years I have been constantly surprised by how well Hobby pellets shoot, especially considering their name and price. With two of my guns they were the pellet of choice.

Still, I enjoy playing with other stuff. The RWS Basics are the cheapest decent pellet I know of and I shoot a lot of them. They are very accurate. They would be all I would use for a Jr. program or most club level shooting and I would try them in any gun (you never know).

Incidentally, being an old Marine I prefer the older meaning of "FTW".

paw080 wrote:Yes, I know it has been said by elite shooters, dead and alive, that the very best pellets are so cheap that everyone should use them for practice also.
I can't deny they are correct....but they don't improve my score yet....

An interesting attitude.

Mine is somewhat different. I have total confidence that when I perform perfectly the result will be a 10.8-10.9 (I do get them occassionally)

If I don't have that degree of confidence in my gun/ammunition combination then what is the point of shooting competitions or even looking at the shot position on a training target. The result would just be a matter of luck, which goes against my competitive instinct.

David Levene wrote:

paw080 wrote:Yes, I know it has been said by elite shooters, dead and alive, that the very best pellets are so cheap that everyone should use them for practice also.
I can't deny they are correct....but they don't improve my score yet....

An interesting attitude.

Mine is somewhat different. I have total confidence that when I perform perfectly the result will be a 10.8-10.9 (I do get them occassionally)

If I don't have that degree of confidence in my gun/ammunition combination then what is the point of shooting competitions or even looking at the shot position on a training target. The result would just be a matter of luck, which goes against my competitive instinct.

David, You have made an erroneous assuption of my shooting attitude.
When I perform perfectly, I score a 10.8-10.9 with Basics...What is your point....?

Tony G

Rover wrote:Imported German or Belgian beer is the only proper quaff for air pistol shooters. Light beer is for wusses!

Over the years I have been constantly surprised by how well Hobby pellets shoot, especially considering their name and price. With two of my guns they were the pellet of choice.

Still, I enjoy playing with other stuff. The RWS Basics are the cheapest decent pellet I know of and I shoot a lot of them. They are very accurate. They would be all I would use for a Jr. program or most club level shooting and I would try them in any gun (you never know).

Incidentally, being an old Marine I prefer the older meaning of "FTW".

Just tried the Hobby pellets out and given my skill level - there certainly was no noticeable difference as compared to the R-10's. Possibly not surprisingly, the point of impact appears very close to the R-10's.

paw080 wrote:When I perform perfectly, I score a 10.8-10.9 with Basics...What is your point....?

If you are certain that every time you perform perfectly you get a 10.8-10.9 then you must already be using a gun/pellet combination capable of a (barely larger than) single pellet sized group.

If that is the case then what are you saving your JSBs and Finale Match pellets for. They obviously cannot improve on the the "perfect" cheap pellets you are using.

Having said all of that, I would doubt very much whether any pistol/pellet combination is capable of shooting a 60+ shot 10.8 sized group. That doesn't really matter though. What does matter is knowing that you are using the very best combination you can. It's then all down to you, not your equipment.

Over here in the corner in the FWIW category . . .

I have tested a variety of pellets at longer distances (I most often shoot AP at 50' with reduced targets for bullseye practice), and I can say that at least with my gun there is a huge difference between the basic, hobby and even the Meisterkugeln pellets and the R-10s. The R-10s will shoot tight cloverleafs. The others don't even come close -- more like roughly inch groups. Between the "others" there was not a whole lot of difference. Now it was a small test (10 shot groups), but those were the results . . .

Your milage may vary, etc. :)

David Levene wrote:

paw080 wrote:When I perform perfectly, I score a 10.8-10.9 with Basics...What is your point....?

If you are certain that every time you perform perfectly you get a 10.8-10.9 then you must already be using a gun/pellet combination capable of a (barely larger than) single pellet sized group.

If that is the case then what are you saving your JSBs and Finale Match pellets for. They obviously cannot improve on the the "perfect" cheap pellets you are using.

Having said all of that, I would doubt very much whether any pistol/pellet combination is capable of shooting a 60+ shot 10.8 sized group. That doesn't really matter though. What does matter is knowing that you are using the very best combination you can. It's then all down to you, not your equipment.

Hi David, I'm laughing to myself, because I agree with you and approach
AP in a similar way. Yes, I do score deep tens everytime that I do everything
right. Of course, I don't always do everything right. I shoot an FWB mod 100
which tosses those 7.0 grain Basics at 505-510 fps. My JSBs and H&N pellets
are heavier than 7.0gr; and they are used in my Steyr LP1-C which is setup
to shoot the JSB 8.25 gr at 525-528 fps. My son usually shoots the LP1 in matches.
I also think the the best equipment I have to work with is myself. Thanks
for your thoughts, I do appreciate them.

Tony G

Philadelphia wrote:Over here in the corner in the FWIW category . . .

I have tested a variety of pellets at longer distances (I most often shoot AP at 50' with reduced targets for bullseye practice), and I can say that at least with my gun there is a huge difference between the basic, hobby and even the Meisterkugeln pellets and the R-10s. The R-10s will shoot tight cloverleafs. The others don't even come close -- more like roughly inch groups. Between the "others" there was not a whole lot of difference. Now it was a small test (10 shot groups), but those were the results . . .

Your milage may vary, etc. :)

I have also found a significant difference in group size between R10, Meisterkugeln and Hobby (all 7.0 gr) in my IZH 46M even at distances as short as 10 yd. The R10 and MK are pretty close, but the Hobby groups are definitly larger.