TargetTalk

I suspect that most of these fall into the dumb question category - but here goes anyway.

How do you keep track of how many shots you've taken in an air pistol match? During my basement shooting sessions, I typically lose track of how many shots I have on target. I guess that I can no longer count to 10 without a calculator. Should I purchase one of the pellet shaker boxes that our host advertises - or is there something EVERYONE uses or does and I'm just too dimwitted to know better?

The foam in my 'custom' Pardini K58 AP pistol case is pretty much all rotted out. Silly me, I thought that it would be easy to find replacement foam that I could cut to fit. Other than the mattress pad stuff which I suspect will trap moisture, it there an obvious place to buy the 'egg crate' foam?

Obviously, I'm currently an unclassified AP shooter (master, marksman, etc.). Granted, I don't know what it means to be classified - but I'm assuming that I can (and should) get classified at an NRA-approved 10m air pistol matches and also to get 'classified', I of course need to be an NRA member. Correct? In Maryland, a quick search turned up the 12th Precinct Club, which runs 10M AP matches starting in the Fall. Surprisingly, a quick NRA seach didn't turn up much - other than quite a bit of info on the juniors programs (which I'm not). Is there a good web site that lays out all of the NRA 10m air pistol shooting details?

Regarding ammo, I started out using Vogel Sport (orange tin) from our host and when it ran out, I switched to RWS in my Pardini K58. Accuracy seemed comparable, but there's a little resistance when pushing the RWS Meisterkugen pellets into the chamber that I didn't 'feel' with the Vogel Sport pellets (exact diameter of Meisterkugen pellets unknown). Is a little bit of resistance 'normal' - or should I be using a smaller pellet? I see that 0.177 pellets are sold in 4.48, 4.49, and 4.50 sizes. Of course, I'm still not sure what is the correct size of pellet for possibly other unknown (to me) reasons. I'm assuming that some pellets perform better in certain guns as mentioned on the Vogel USA web site (suggested by our host).

As for keeping track of your shots, go to: http://www.pilkguns.com/pellets.shtml and look up the pellet shaker box.

Very handy.

For foam of various types used in pistol cases, try:

http://www.foambymail.com/

Click on the packaging link. Consider the charcoal foam (plain or pick and pluck), the charcoal colored polyethylene (2.2lb), and for inside lids, the eggcrate.

zollman

p.s. I feel your pain about the Pardini case. I just had a Steyr LP10 shipped to me in an old Pardini case. It took 5 hours to completely disassemble the pistol and clean the black, gummy powder that used to be Pardini foam out of the LP-10s trigger and bolt mechanisms.

zollman wrote:For foam of various types used in pistol cases, try:

http://www.foambymail.com/

Click on the packaging link. Consider the charcoal foam (plain or pick and pluck), the charcoal colored polyethylene (2.2lb), and for inside lids, the eggcrate.

zollman

p.s. I feel your pain about the Pardini case. I just had a Steyr LP10 shipped to me in an old Pardini case. It took 5 hours to completely disassemble the pistol and clean the black, gummy powder that used to be Pardini foam out of the LP-10s trigger and bolt mechanisms.

Perfect. my foambymail from the foam factory is now on order. Foam was cheap - shipping was actually more than the foam. One sheet of the eggcrate was probably all that I needed - but how could anyone pass up getting a sheet of pick and pluck. Yes, I guess that my life is pretty pathetic that I'm now looking forward to getting a sheet of pick and pluck foam. Thanks - I really needed the "foam'. Hate not being able to use the original factory case.

12th Precinct Club probably has not scheduled the matches yet but probably will before to long. You have two choices, USAS (http://www.usashooting.org/) and/or the NRA. The matches are generally well attended by both juniors and us seniors.

The men's match is sixty shots in 1 hour 45 minutes. AT 12th precinct, they break that into 15 minute segments(10 shots per segment) as they do not have target return systems, so we all walk down and get the targets. Very well run matches, nice range, helpful folks.

As to keeping track of pellets, I use two methods:

1) I have some styrofoam trays that RWS pellets came in. If I feel like doing a small amount of work, I repopulate a couple trays prior to the match.

2) More often, I simply drop either 5 or 10 pellets into the lid for the tin prior to each target (or set).

NRA no longer requires membership to create a classification, but recently they were offerring free membership. You might want to check into that, if interested. If you are solely planning to compete in Air Pistol, you might consider USA Shooting. Most of the AP matches seem to be USA Shooting sanctioned as well as some being NRA in addition to USAS.

If you're close to the 12th, you might want to visit it any Wednesday evening after about 5:00 PM. There is a Bullseye Pistol league going on and often one or two AP shooters will show up. Also the USNA Pistol Coach, Kathy Callahan, frequents the club on those evenings. Take your equipment.

Alternately, you might want to contact Kathy directly. Her info is on the 12th site under Air Pistol via the Pistol link in the left side bar.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

Ed Hall wrote:As to keeping track of pellets, I use two methods:

1) I have some styrofoam trays that RWS pellets came in. If I feel like doing a small amount of work, I repopulate a couple trays prior to the match.

2) More often, I simply drop either 5 or 10 pellets into the lid for the tin prior to each target (or set).

NRA no longer requires membership to create a classification, but recently they were offerring free membership. You might want to check into that, if interested. If you are solely planning to compete in Air Pistol, you might consider USA Shooting. Most of the AP matches seem to be USA Shooting sanctioned as well as some being NRA in addition to USAS.

If you're close to the 12th, you might want to visit it any Wednesday evening after about 5:00 PM. There is a Bullseye Pistol league going on and often one or two AP shooters will show up. Also the USNA Pistol Coach, Kathy Callahan, frequents the club on those evenings. Take your equipment.

Alternately, you might want to contact Kathy directly. Her info is on the 12th site under Air Pistol via the Pistol link in the left side bar.

Take Care,
Ed Hall
Air Force Shooting Homepage
Bullseye (and International) Competition Things

Thanks. I shot Kathy an email.

My vote goes for the pellet shaker box. Make sure you fill it before the match, take your sighting shots from the far side then change to the near side for your match shots.

This can also prove useful when shooting on electronics. "Have I already loaded a pellet" (with some pistols this is not always obvious). A quick check of pellets left in the box and the number of shots displayed on the monitor will answer the question.

Joe:

I second the nomination for a shaker box. It simplifies things dramatically.

And definitely come to the 12th Precinct shoots. They are pretty big - 25+ competitors, and a high standard of competition. And they are shooting Free Pistol for some of the matches (a LONG day). I shoot them regularly.

I'm picking up a shaker today. It's a little indulgence that I have afforded myself. But my usual method is to use the top of the pellet tin and drop/arrange groups of 5 in the cover or on some clean bounded surface. I can then pick from these little groups to track my shooting. So far it has worked great. I shoot in a variety of locations and I often want to carry a minimum of stuff with me. I'll probably continue to use the tin top method even after I get the shaker, since it works quite well. I've been using JSB pellets and the tins have a nice foam insert that keeps things from rolling around too much.

The K58 is a great gun. I love mine. Great feel, nice balance, and weight.

Join and support the NRA, but it will take a while to get classified. You'll be shooting against the Masters until you do. There doesn't seem to be much NRA air pistol activity either.

Join USA Shooting for the heaviest International style competition and you'll probably have a classification in a couple of matches. You'll be able to print off a classification card from their website.

Don't worry about your pellet size. If you can cram it in the gun, it'll shoot. Don't worry about a few 1/100s of an inch in group size if you can't keep your shots in an inch and a half.

Rover wrote:Join and support the NRA, but it will take a while to get classified. You'll be shooting against the Masters until you do. There doesn't seem to be much NRA air pistol activity either.

Join USA Shooting for the heaviest International style competition and you'll probably have a classification in a couple of matches. You'll be able to print off a classification card from their website.

Don't worry about your pellet size. If you can cram it in the gun, it'll shoot. Don't worry about a few 1/100s of an inch in group size if you can't keep your shots in an inch and a half.

Thanks. Is there any school of thought as to whether it's preferable to have a slightly 'snug' fit when loading the pellet vs. 'loose'?

As for 'joining' the NRA or USA Shooting to get classified, it looks like I can put off the decision until I compete in a few of the Sunday matches at the 12th Precinct in the Fall. Just need to keep practicing till then.

joe1347 wrote:Thanks. Is there any school of thought as to whether it's preferable to have a slightly 'snug' fit when loading the pellet vs. 'loose'?

While barrels can be temperamental, the way I understand the dynamics involved is this:
Accuracy is all about consistency.
A pellet slightly snug will be sized by the barrel, so all pellets will exit the barrel in a consistent form, and of course snug fit assures positive rifling engagement.
A loose pellet might not have optimum contact with the bore, so the potential inconsistencies from pellet to pellet might not be "ironed out" in the bore.

With the K58, load a pellet then poke it back out with something.

You'll find the head and skirt engraved by the rifling. If not, you know what to do.

Previous poster correct: better too big than too small (at least that's what she told me).

. . . .

Previous poster correct: better too big than too small (at least that's what she told me).

Attempted humor aside, this does not agree with my experience. Every time I have chrono'ed pellets in various pistols (Izh46, SAM M10, Pardini K2s, Benelli Kite) the least consistent velocities were pellets marked .451 or .452. Some of these were fairly large samples lest anybody wonder about the statistics.

Small SD does not translate directly to small groups, but it can't hurt.

A little tight usually is better than loose. Especially in unchoked barrels (not match). Too tight isnt good, you'll get deformation before it exits the barrel and loose accuracy. For pistols, I usually choose .49 or .50 sizes.

How many shots. Fortunately for me, I dont shoot matches. With the morini its easy, when air is too low, it simply blocks..!;)
However, having a cilinder with mano is good, and/or take a certain amount of pellets with you each time. So you know how much you've fired.

Too much pellet BS (including my own). While what everyone on here says is probably true, it really doesn't matter. (See Nygord and our host). Just shoot what you've got, can buy locally, or find cheap, unless they are really crap. (Pistol only)

As for counting your pellets during a match, you will be shooting either one, three, or five shots per target; not hard to keep track of. When you change targets put the correct number of pellets in the lid. When you run out of targets you're finished. They should be numbered, so you can tell where you are.

All this is just distracting you from perfectly firing the one shot confronting you.

I also like the shaker box, they work really well.

For a case, I use one of these http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none

I made pillows to cover the foam so it won't contaminate the gun, nice transportation for not a lot of cash.

Steve.

tenex wrote:I also like the shaker box, they work really well.

For a case, I use one of these http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none

I made pillows to cover the foam so it won't contaminate the gun, nice transportation for not a lot of cash.

Steve.

Agree. The pellet shaker box works great and is highly recommended.

Thanks again for the suggestions above. The recommended foam worked out great. Suprisingly, I ended up preferring the pick and pluck foam over the eggcrate style (pic below) - plus the pick and pluck foam is very easy to 'install'.