TargetTalk

Is there a straightforward test to determine whether an air pistol needs new seals?

I just purchased a used Pardini K58 and the pellets at 10m don't seem to be hitting the target as hard as what I'm used to with my Aeron Chameleon CO2 AP. Specifically, the sound when the pellets impact the target isn't as loud as what I've come to expect and the pellets are tearing the target instead of punching fairly clean holes.


edited to add: punching a little cleaner after 50 shots. Also better in terms of cleaner holes - not surprisingly - with the higher quality Edelman targets from our host.

Should I be putting a drop or two of gun oil on the master cylinder seal?

Do NOT use gun oil. Use a silicon oil such as Crosman makes or Beeman "Chamber Oil". Pardini gives a bottle of their proprietary oil with new guns.

Open the cocking lever ALL the way and you'll see an O-ring. Put two drops of oil there and start shooting. If the gun has been sitting a while the oil in it can get gummy. Sometimes there is a leak at the seal on the loading ram.

Be careful with non-silicon products as they can cause dieseling...very expensive (don't ask). If you don't get a fix, get a rebuild or do it yourself. You can find the directions here:

www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/k58a.html

The pistol should produce perfectly clean holes in Edelman targets with any pellet, but I prefer the lighter pellets in the Pardini.

When a seal goes the pellet will have a hard time getting to the target.

Rover wrote:Do NOT use gun oil. Use a silicon oil such as Crosman makes or Beeman "Chamber Oil". Pardini gives a bottle of their proprietary oil with new guns.

Open the cocking lever ALL the way and you'll see an O-ring. Put two drops of oil there and start shooting. If the gun has been sitting a while the oil in it can get gummy. Sometimes there is a leak at the seal on the loading ram.

Be careful with non-silicon products as they can cause dieseling...very expensive (don't ask). If you don't get a fix, get a rebuild or do it yourself. You can find the directions here:

www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/k58a.html

The pistol should produce perfectly clean holes in Edelman targets with any pellet, but I prefer the lighter pellets in the Pardini.

Thanks. How light of a pellet do you recommend? 0.45g sound about right? I've been shooting the pilkguns Vogel Sport 0.53g pellets so far.

Also, sounds like a couple drops of RWS Air gun Chamber Lube on the o-ring and I'm all set?

Right both times.

Try RWS Basic or Hobby if you like cheap and good... Meisterkugeln or R10 if you like spending your money.

Rover wrote:Right both times.

Try RWS Basic or Hobby if you like cheap and good... Meisterkugeln or R10 if you like spending your money.

Thanks. Both on order. I went with a tin R-10's, since how could anyone pass them up with the great graphic on the tin :) Plus, they're only a few dollars more than the Hobby. I guess I'm a sucker for a 'pretty tin'

joe1347 wrote:Is there a straightforward test to determine whether an air pistol needs new seals?

I just purchased a used Pardini K58 and the pellets at 10m don't seem to be hitting the target as hard as what I'm used to with my Aeron Chameleon CO2 AP. Specifically, the sound when the pellets impact the target isn't as loud as what I've come to expect and the pellets are tearing the target instead of punching fairly clean holes.

You could chronograph the pistols, but in my experience the Aeron shoots a lot faster than the K58. So your results are what I would expect.

Rover wrote:Right both times.

Try RWS Basic or Hobby if you like cheap and good... Meisterkugeln or R10 if you like spending your money.

FWIW, I've tested all the pellets you mention from a vice mounted pistol at 50'. The basics and hobby are OK (under 1"). The Meisters aren't much better. The R-10s are in a different class -- single hole or small cloverleafs. Shooting off hand produces similarly different results with the R-10s producing better results. My theory is that the R-10s have much better dynamic stability and thus produce more consistentcy at the longer distance regardless of the gun used. For 10m, maybe it makes no real difference and if so . . . never mind. ;) I am still torn between the Meisters which are easier to chamber in my gun than the basics but still relatively cheap and the R-10s which are cream of the RWS crop.

I guess as always test them in your gun and buy what gives the results you want.

What this has to do with seals, I don't know -- so I'll add another vote for either pure silicone oil or at least an oil made and sold for precision airgun use. :)

joe1347 wrote:Is there a straightforward test to determine whether an air pistol needs new seals?

Yes, it leaks and go's phutt...!

Philly,
Thanks! I love it when other peoples actual tests (rather than opinions) come out different than mine. I might learn something!

When I bought my K58 from Don Nygord, he threw in a tin of his own brand pellets. I tested them against everything I had and they were the best. But,....Hobbys came in second with groups only one RCH larger at less than half the price. You KNOW what I went with. It was the same with a FWB 65 I once owned.

Testing with a recently acquired K60 came out differently. The RWS Basic gave the largest groups, with the Hobbys about average, and JSB S100 the smallest. But,.....the Basic group easily fit inside the ten ring, every shot deeply cutting the inner ring. $19 a sleeve (at the time).

I use ten shot groups for quick screening and then 25 shot for the REAL test. 3 to 5 shot groups are not reliable. If you get a large group then you can drop that pellet. If you get a small group it means nothing, since you don't have a large enough sample.

I've been told that R10s are just "sorted" Meisterkugeln.

Joe,
Leave the gun cocked for a while and see if it bleeds down. Also, if the cocking arm kicks back and makes a pop when you go to cock it, it's not discharging all the air. Take off the grip and screw the very large screw head at the rear clockwise a couple of turns.

I chronographed my K58 with Hobbys and it was doing about 490. Fast enough, I guess.

RWS Chamber Lube rocks! Thanks Rover. A few drops and it's like I have a different (new) pistol. Now punching clean holes in the (Edelmann) targets with a nice solid 'whack' when the pellet impacts the target. Surprisingly, or maybe not so surprisingly - I needed to lower the point of impact (10m range) by almost 1" after the lube job.

The seller indicated that the pistol was unfired for around 3 years prior to my purchase this week. I guess (assume) that the seal lubrication degraded over the extended period of time?

Still waiting the on the lighter RWS R-10 0.45g match pelllets. I suspect that I won't notice much difference over the Vogel sport 0.53g pellets. But we'll see.

Now time to start paying a little closer attention to my shooting technique since I can't 'blame' all of the those 8's on mediocre equipment any longer. Of course, if I only had a Steyr LP10 - I would now be shooting all 10's :)

David M



Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 188

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: Re: How to Tell if an Air Pistol Needs New Seals?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

joe1347 wrote:
Is there a straightforward test to determine whether an air pistol needs new seals?


Yes, it leaks and go's phutt...!

Thats exactly what I thought after reading the post subject.

"If I only had an Steyr LP10-I would now be shooting all 10s."

With the K58 you should now be shooting all 10s at one forth the price.

Of course, if you're not, it's due to your degrading and filthy shooting practices. Fit your grip and set up your trigger and.....

Clean up your act!