TargetTalk

FP's are single shot weapons, seemingly all have adjustable triggers down to 0 grams so other than grip, what is the actual difference? I mean how much better is a new Hammerli or Morini over an old Toz or equivalent?

Depends on the gun. The Toz-35 is still the gun to beat, but the Morini CM84 is doing it...the trigger is outstanding (pure lightness is not necessarily a virtue), and the sights are better. Adjustability counts.

There is preference and that's it . The VOSTOK MU 55 still has the free pistol world record of 581. Incidentally the old IZH 35 just won the Italian World Cup rapid fire event, or was it the marksman. Perhap someone could shed some light on this.

FWIW, I shoot 480's in the Free pistol event with either my Hammerli FP or my Unique (Standard).

Shoot the pistol you are confident with.

If you look what happens at the top level, the Morini is used by a majority of shooters and the percentage of shooters using it is still growing.

Morini claims that 60%of the shooters at the Beijing Olympics were using a CM84E (not only final, overal) what as far as I know doen't happen in any other event.

Why is it so ? The quality of the pistol is surely one of the reason. The limited options must also be another: only other options for buying a new FP are the MG5 and Pardini now that Hammerli doesn't exist and that Walther seems to have stopped the production of the FP60.

The question is then why not use a Morini ? The most evident one seems to me the grip rake for people used to/who like the extreme rake of the Hammerli that as far as I know cannot be obtained with the Morini. All the rest is really excellent on the Morini

At the moment the simple choice is between the Toz and the Morini, most people who buy a free pistol will have to shape the grip to suit their own hand and style. No grip out of the box will be perfect.
A new Toz (there are some around if you look hard) needs a little work to become a sweet trigger, a little polishing and fine tuning and you have an excellent pistol.
The Morini trigger is a well proven electronic trigger and nice to shoot.
Because free shooters tend to keep a pistol for a very long time once it is set up and fitted to them, the big difference is now support - parts.
The Morini is current production and the Toz is not. Some long time Toz shooters are now buying old Toz's for parts to keep their match pistol going.
The only other easily available current production pistol is the Pardini.
Choose well, my Morini is nearly 20 yrs old and still goes bang.

David M wrote:The only other easily available current production pistol is the Pardini.

Why do you exclude the Matchgun MG5 from the list of "easily available current production pistol" ?

Just like for the Pardini, there is a mechanical trigger version and an electronic trigger version with the possibility to easily switch from the one to the other that as far as I know doesn't exist for the Pardini nor on any other pistol), it is a recent design, is in production and can easily be bought in most countries in the world. People using it seems very happy with it, no polemic like with the MG2 at all.

Probably because Matchguns aren't easily available! The Australian dealer recently stopped dealing in them (unless you know if someone new took over)

David M wrote: Because free shooters tend to keep a pistol for a very long time once it is set up and fitted to them, the big difference is now support - parts.
The Morini is current production and the Toz is not. Some long time Toz shooters are now buying old Toz's for parts to keep their match pistol going.

PARTS! I think this is a big reason why we are seeing fewer Toz around. I have a 13 yr old Toz and picked up spare Toz recently. This summer I am going to test both in a rest to see how good they both shoot. Then I will have a part gun. Should keep me going for 15-20+ years. Even though I am sure I will pick up a Morini at some point. I have never shot one and who knows it could fit me better (not just the grip) for what ever reason.

If I were new getting into the sport I would get a Morini just because you know you can buy parts for them.

Hämmerli parts shouldn't be all that hard to get, the question is only - who has bought them... Roger Geissbühler probably has a bunch - he used to work at Hämmerli, and got himself a nice stash when Lenzburg closed - www.schiesssport.ch. A lot of older Hämmerli FP parts definitely ended up with Werner Kessler (www.kesslerauktionen.ch) who also enjoys a excellent network in SIG and Hämmerli circles. And I'd wager a guess that from the 160 onward, the inventory went to Walther. Just bought a bunch of 160 special parts from them, not the fastest service, but no problemo. So, I wouldn't discount Hämmerli from the market, especially if you're counting the TOZ still in - a 150 can make a excellent pistol that will run for years without any problems whatsoever, and prices are tending vs. the ridiculous now...

hello tycho,i had started a post about 160 specials and part differences with the 160 hammerlis you seem to have found some parts my german not being to good i will phone tomorow to see if they have a spere pin for a 160 special.Thanks for the adress .Rereading did you get your parts from your adress or from walther??
While on the web site you gave i looked at there fp for sale and saw that a160 special is going for more than a morini.
Darrell

I got my 160 special parts directly from Walther, official way via contact form. Good technical information, fair price, pretty fast for a big company.

When I had to replace my firing pin, I could buy one from Walther (via a gunsmth) but when I tried to get a spare one, it never arrived (ordered via the same gunsmith), why ?

I think it also comes down to toz v morini and mainly cost. I got a toz in brilliant order for $150 to get a morini its well over 2000. the morini might be slightly better but the toz is still capable of winning an olympic gold medal. If the morini is better you might be able to make advantage of it if you are shooting 560 and above and then you might gain a couple of points. If i can shoot this sort of score then i will consider a morini, if i can manage to grow a money trea then cost isnt a factor and il consider a morini