I ordered (and pre-paid in full) an Anschutz LP@ early in the year.
It was new "old stock" (imported prior to the financial melt down and sinking of the Australian dollar). After a two month wait for my "Permit to Acquire" to be processed, I was able to finally pick up my pistol.
It appears I have been supplied an LP@-Junior. I have weighed the pistol complete with cylinder ~840g. Sight radius ~ 32cm.
The importer does not "believe" the pistol I have been supplied is a Junior.
I would appreciate it if someone could cross reference the serial number (3073828) to positively identify the model. An email has been sent to Anschutz but no reply has been received to date.
I am more than annoyed. I have been offered a refund but that is small comfort considering that most imported pistols have increased in price by ~30%. I will have to reapply for a "Permit to Acquire" as my original permit will expire in two weeks.
As the LP@ has been discontinued, the "correct" pistol cannot be supplied. It appears the Anschutz importer does not have the rights to Steyr product!
Not sure how to proceed.
Annoyed in Sydney,
Peter
Anschutz LP@ or LP@-Junior
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
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greentangerine
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- Location: Dorset, UK
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greentangerine
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 pm
- Location: Dorset, UK
Also a spec sheet in Spanish here ... similar values.
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/download ... ?downloads
http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/download ... ?downloads
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greentangerine
- Posts: 42
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- Location: Dorset, UK
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
Thanks for all the replies. The manual that came with the pistol states the same specifications as quoted above.
When my gun dealer asked the importer, they were told there may have been differences in the last model of the LP@... My gun dealer was not sure as they have not handled the LP@ previously. My order was their first and last for the LP@.
I will contact the importer directly.
To be fair, the gun dealer has been persistant in trying to get the correct pistol. Their order to the importer was for an LP@.
What troubles me,is that the importer has stated that they have supplied the pistol as an LP@ previously. I wonder how many LP@ owners out here in Australia do not realise they have been supplied LP@-Juniors?
When my gun dealer asked the importer, they were told there may have been differences in the last model of the LP@... My gun dealer was not sure as they have not handled the LP@ previously. My order was their first and last for the LP@.
I will contact the importer directly.
To be fair, the gun dealer has been persistant in trying to get the correct pistol. Their order to the importer was for an LP@.
What troubles me,is that the importer has stated that they have supplied the pistol as an LP@ previously. I wonder how many LP@ owners out here in Australia do not realise they have been supplied LP@-Juniors?
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
Well you certainly learn a lot when things go wrong!
It appears there are a number of "parallel" distribution channels in Australia for Steyr and Anschutz product. I have the misfortune of dealing with the "authorised" importer.
The formal response from the importer to my gun dealer has been as follows.
1. Refund for the pistol - approved
2. No refund for the Firearms Registry paperwork costs
3. No compensation for the time lost (It will be another 30 days to process a new "permit to acquire")
4. No compensation for the two round trips of ~300km each (to pick up and now to return the pistol)
5. No offer to source an equivalent replacement (Steyr LP10)
After speaking to several other gun dealers (inter state) that have handled the LP@ and LP@-Junior - there is NO plausible way the two models could have been confused.
No response from Anschutz - I shall wait another week.
This experience has tarnished my opinion of Anschutz after several positive decades. To be blunt I am appalled.
It appears there are a number of "parallel" distribution channels in Australia for Steyr and Anschutz product. I have the misfortune of dealing with the "authorised" importer.
The formal response from the importer to my gun dealer has been as follows.
1. Refund for the pistol - approved
2. No refund for the Firearms Registry paperwork costs
3. No compensation for the time lost (It will be another 30 days to process a new "permit to acquire")
4. No compensation for the two round trips of ~300km each (to pick up and now to return the pistol)
5. No offer to source an equivalent replacement (Steyr LP10)
After speaking to several other gun dealers (inter state) that have handled the LP@ and LP@-Junior - there is NO plausible way the two models could have been confused.
No response from Anschutz - I shall wait another week.
This experience has tarnished my opinion of Anschutz after several positive decades. To be blunt I am appalled.
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jacques b gros
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:54 am
- Location: Rio Grande do Sul - South Brazil
Well, don't expect anything better from any other brand. I bought a FWB P44 and it was delivered with a large grip, the biggest I've ever seen in any pistol, instead of medium. Had to sell it and buy an used LP@.
Sure miss Hammerli in the 70's, when a letter to the factory produced results far faster than an email today. And the parts were sent free of charge...
Sure miss Hammerli in the 70's, when a letter to the factory produced results far faster than an email today. And the parts were sent free of charge...
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
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Guest 4-2-Day
LP@, Light, Junior?
I'm curious. Does the LP@ Light have a triangular front sight or a single blade? The specs I've read seem to indicate that the LP@ has a triangular front sight that is different widths, while the 'light' does not. Is this the case?Multiplexman wrote:I received a reply this afternoon from Anschutz positively identifying the supplied pistol as an LP@-LIGHT.
Now I shall wait for a response as to the proposed remedy.
I wish you luck in your quest for a pistol. I almost purchased an LP@ here in the States, but decided on a used FWB P-44 instead.
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
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jacques b gros
- Posts: 174
- Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:54 am
- Location: Rio Grande do Sul - South Brazil
If you manage to swap the pistols at a decent cost, do it.
If not, why don't you keep the LP light? If the grip fits and the pistol is the same but for the ported barrel, don't worry 'bout the weight bar. In fact, the whole thing, bar and weights are too heavy (100g) for me. Removed them from the pistol in the first day.
Found that the barrel was too light, attached the small screw driver that came with the pistol to the air tank, with a rubber band. Things improved, looked for a more permanent ballast.
Found a bolt and nut set that weighted about right, was looking for a way to attach it to the pistol when my daughter went by. Her hair clip was drafted into service. Some foam was glued to the inside to avoid scratches and movements, bolt and nut were fixed with a rubber band.
Can be moved back and forth and stays put where you want...and as a smile on it!
If not, why don't you keep the LP light? If the grip fits and the pistol is the same but for the ported barrel, don't worry 'bout the weight bar. In fact, the whole thing, bar and weights are too heavy (100g) for me. Removed them from the pistol in the first day.
Found that the barrel was too light, attached the small screw driver that came with the pistol to the air tank, with a rubber band. Things improved, looked for a more permanent ballast.
Found a bolt and nut set that weighted about right, was looking for a way to attach it to the pistol when my daughter went by. Her hair clip was drafted into service. Some foam was glued to the inside to avoid scratches and movements, bolt and nut were fixed with a rubber band.
Can be moved back and forth and stays put where you want...and as a smile on it!
- Attachments
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It might be cheaper to just buy a barrel and a new cylinder and make a standard model (Anschutz ought to have parts at least).Multiplexman wrote:My LP@-LIGHT was supplied with the grip and front sight as per the LP@.
The only features that alerted me were the absence of the weight bar, and the shorter (non ported) barrel.
Steve.
Re: LP@, Light, Junior?
Anschutz made two different models of AP with a short barrel/cylinder:Guest 4-2-Day wrote:I'm curious. Does the LP@ Light have a triangular front sight or a single blade? The specs I've read seem to indicate that the LP@ has a triangular front sight that is different widths, while the 'light' does not. Is this the case?Multiplexman wrote:I received a reply this afternoon from Anschutz positively identifying the supplied pistol as an LP@-LIGHT.
Now I shall wait for a response as to the proposed remedy.
- the first one was called the LP@ junior. It doesn't have the triangular front sight of the LP@. I think that the grip had a fixed, non adjustable palm rest.
- the LP@ light = latest model that has the same triangular front sight of the LP@. The grip has an adjustable palm rest as the LP@.
About the additional weight: you can add the rod for additional weights of the LP@ to an LP@ light.
There is another "invisible" difference between the LP@ and LP@ light: the factory adjusted pellet speed of the LP@ light is much lower than on the LP@ in order to save air and allow a decent number of shots out of the short cylinder (also more air is needed to produce the same pellet speed with the short barrel than with the regular barrel). It is of course possible to increase the pellet speed but then the number of shots drops to a value too small for a normal 60 pellets match.
Last point: the LP@ light is a unique pistol for ladies or junior: it has all the top features of the LP@/LP10 but with a very low weight. Since the discontinuation of its manufacturing, there is no equivalent anymore on the market.
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
Thanks for all the replies.
I have received no further correspondence from Anschutz after they confirmed the AP was an LP@-LIGHT.
I would accept keeping the LP@-LIGHT provided I was refunded the difference in price between an LP@ and the lower cost of the LP@-LIGHT. This has not been offered.
This still would not be an ideal outcome. At the time of purchase I could have acquired a new LP10 at a slightly higher price, or a Morini CM162EI at significantly less. The CM162EI is now 15% dearer than the offered refund, and the LP10 is 35% more expensive.
There is also a point of principle. I have not received the AP I ordered AND paid for.
I have received no further correspondence from Anschutz after they confirmed the AP was an LP@-LIGHT.
I would accept keeping the LP@-LIGHT provided I was refunded the difference in price between an LP@ and the lower cost of the LP@-LIGHT. This has not been offered.
This still would not be an ideal outcome. At the time of purchase I could have acquired a new LP10 at a slightly higher price, or a Morini CM162EI at significantly less. The CM162EI is now 15% dearer than the offered refund, and the LP10 is 35% more expensive.
There is also a point of principle. I have not received the AP I ordered AND paid for.
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
I received interesting correspondence from the now EX appointed agent for Anschutz Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports.
Essentially - refer my issue to the new Anschutz agents!
For any Australian shooters out there, I'll leave it up to you to decide whom to conduct business with.
I wish the new agents, NIOA Trading, all the best with the Anschutz agency.
In the absence of any correspondence from Anschutz, I must accept that though I have paid for an LP@ I have an LP@-LIGHT.
I would have thought such trade practices were restricted to the realms of the worst "used car salesmen", not agents of arguably one of the most reputable firearms brands.
Over and out, off to the range to punch some paper.
Essentially - refer my issue to the new Anschutz agents!
For any Australian shooters out there, I'll leave it up to you to decide whom to conduct business with.
I wish the new agents, NIOA Trading, all the best with the Anschutz agency.
In the absence of any correspondence from Anschutz, I must accept that though I have paid for an LP@ I have an LP@-LIGHT.
I would have thought such trade practices were restricted to the realms of the worst "used car salesmen", not agents of arguably one of the most reputable firearms brands.
Over and out, off to the range to punch some paper.
I do not know the commercial laws in Australia. But in Europe your case would be very clear: by buying the pistol from Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports, you have a contract with them. They have to supply the gioods as described in the contract (order or whatever kind of paper it is provided that it says an LP@). If they don't, their sales conditions as written in the contract are applicable (provided these are not against any Australian law), if nothing is written concerning your problem, the Australain law is applicable if there is something applicable to your problem.
In general, refund is an option and, if not explicitely excluded, you can ask for damages. Also, if there is nothing written in the contract, you are not obliged to accept a refund and can ask to get what you ordered.
But there are often clause in such contract limiting the responsibilities/obligation of the seller especially for damages and also if the ordered product is not manufactured/available anymore (what is the case for the LP@).
About Anschutz = the manufacturer, you have no contract with them and cannot claim anything against them. If they didn't deliver what Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports ordered to them, it is up to Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports to deal with them.
About the new agent, unless there is a contract saying that that they take over the responsibility for the past commercial responsibilities of Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports, you have nothing to do with them and they have no legal obligation to help you.
Often people think that, when they buy a product from manufacturer X, manufacturer X will have to help them in case of problem. From a legal point of view, this is not true, it is the seller who has legal obligation and only him.
In general, refund is an option and, if not explicitely excluded, you can ask for damages. Also, if there is nothing written in the contract, you are not obliged to accept a refund and can ask to get what you ordered.
But there are often clause in such contract limiting the responsibilities/obligation of the seller especially for damages and also if the ordered product is not manufactured/available anymore (what is the case for the LP@).
About Anschutz = the manufacturer, you have no contract with them and cannot claim anything against them. If they didn't deliver what Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports ordered to them, it is up to Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports to deal with them.
About the new agent, unless there is a contract saying that that they take over the responsibility for the past commercial responsibilities of Target Firearms - Parabellum Imports, you have nothing to do with them and they have no legal obligation to help you.
Often people think that, when they buy a product from manufacturer X, manufacturer X will have to help them in case of problem. From a legal point of view, this is not true, it is the seller who has legal obligation and only him.
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Multiplexman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:29 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
Hi Jipe,
Yes PI are patently aware that I will not pursue legal action for the monetary value involved. Legal costs will easily exceed the value in question.
My gun dealer has gone out of his way to provide "compensation" for the actions of his supplier. The sales contract was between myself and my gun dealer. The contract in question was between PI and the gun dealer.
I understand that I do not have a contract with Anschutz. Unfortunately the actions of one's agents are often seen as the actions of the parent company. Harsh maybe, but understandable - otherwise we would always deal with the parent company.
In hindsight I would have been better off dealing with a recommended "grey importer" of Anschutz rather than the "appointed" agent.
Often simple acknowledgement of the situation, not an admission of guilt or liability, is all that is needed for a consumer to feel that a company cares. The silence I have received from Anschutz does not quite cut it.
At least a new Anschutz agent has been appointed.
BTW the Anschutz LP@LIGHT is a nice AP to use. I find the light weight and short sight radius does make it easier to obtain a sight picture quickly. I shall now spend my time to learn to use it to the best of my ability.
Hi jacques b gros,
That's a great idea for an adjustable weight with a smiley!
Thanks to all those that replied. I will not let this episode tarnish my love for the sport.
Yes PI are patently aware that I will not pursue legal action for the monetary value involved. Legal costs will easily exceed the value in question.
My gun dealer has gone out of his way to provide "compensation" for the actions of his supplier. The sales contract was between myself and my gun dealer. The contract in question was between PI and the gun dealer.
I understand that I do not have a contract with Anschutz. Unfortunately the actions of one's agents are often seen as the actions of the parent company. Harsh maybe, but understandable - otherwise we would always deal with the parent company.
In hindsight I would have been better off dealing with a recommended "grey importer" of Anschutz rather than the "appointed" agent.
Often simple acknowledgement of the situation, not an admission of guilt or liability, is all that is needed for a consumer to feel that a company cares. The silence I have received from Anschutz does not quite cut it.
At least a new Anschutz agent has been appointed.
BTW the Anschutz LP@LIGHT is a nice AP to use. I find the light weight and short sight radius does make it easier to obtain a sight picture quickly. I shall now spend my time to learn to use it to the best of my ability.
Hi jacques b gros,
That's a great idea for an adjustable weight with a smiley!
Thanks to all those that replied. I will not let this episode tarnish my love for the sport.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
I can understand Anschutz's position on this.Multiplexman wrote:I understand that I do not have a contract with Anschutz. Unfortunately the actions of one's agents are often seen as the actions of the parent company. Harsh maybe, but understandable - otherwise we would always deal with the parent company.
They have confirmed that the gun you have is an LP@-Light.
It would not be right for them to discuss the details of the contract they had with PI to supply your gun. It may sound brutal but it is none of your business; it's a private matter between them. For all you know the order they received might have been for an LP@-Light.
This leaves you in a difficult position. From what you have said, you would not want to take legal action against the dealer who sold you the gun, he sounds like one of the "good guys". It's good to hear that you actually like the Light, even though it might not be the gun you expected.