Hi there. I've just joined the group so sorry if this question seems obvious. I have just started 25yard prone shooting. I bought an Anschutz super match 54 with an 1813 stock. I love it. Thing is, there is a lot of adjustments there. So, what is the best way to adjust it to make it fit? Is there a best place for the rear sight or is it just a case of giving it all a tweak and seeing what happens?
Thanks for your patience with a newbie.
Rifle fit
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Guest
Gubby,
you'll see quite a lot of Anschutz 1813s on firing points in the UK, I used one for several years before switching to a Gemini.
If your club doesn't have an NSRA accredited coach/instructor, I'd ask one of the better shooters to help you set up with your new rifle, ideally a shooter who uses or has used an 1813.
I'll presume that prior to buying your 1813 you were using a club rifle. You can start by copying the butt-to-grip and grip-to-handstop measurements from the club rifle to the 1813. This way your existing sling setting should be roughly right.
You can experiemnt with butt length if you need to. However, firstly, if the butt-handstop distance is correct (i.e. the sling supports the rifle), if you move the buttplate, you'll need to move the handstop by the smae amount. Secondly, I would advise aginst extending the butt by more than about 6 notches unless you are very tall (6' 3" or over). A long butt makes it more difficult for your left hand to reach far enough forwards for optimum balance without lying very wide to the target, or having a very flat position (remember NSRA rules stipulate a forearm angle of 30 degrees). If the butt is too long (so the sling is too tight), it can make the right shoulder tense (bad for consistent recoil).
When setting up I would initially remove the hook from the butt plate; the hook makes it easier to seat the plate consistently in the shoulder, but it can be put back on later. You may want to raise the plate a little to improve contact in your shoulder. The amount you raise it will depend on your build, position height, and target height.
The plate can be twisted to cant the rifle, or prevent canting. The plate can also be moved left or right, so it can sit firmly in the shoulder and the stock by your face. I would recommend leaving these until you have the butt length, the handstop position, and the sling tension just right.
Once you have the butt sorted you could bolt the butt hook back on. This should sit against the ribcage, by (but not under the armpit). It gives a greta reference point for seating the butt. However if the height of the plate (and therefore the hook) is not correct, the hook can act as a lever to force the rifle.
Finally the cheekpiece, this can be raised to align your eye with the rearsight aperture. It is not easy to do in position (Anschutz designed a more user friendly mechanism in the 1990s). The 1813 cheekpiece is quite broad, and may not suit people with a wide or chubby face, many 1813 owners have carved out the cheepiece for a more comfortable fit.
Rearsight distance; the rear of the yepeice is normally 1-3 inches from your eye. The precise distance varies from person to person. You'll need to fiddle with this until the sight picture is clear and sharp. If your 1813 came with an adjustable iris, use this to refine the rearsight picture (especially under different lighting conditions).
That's all I can think of for the moment for rifle fit. If you haven't got one yet, I cannot recommend a good strong jacket highly enough. The 1813 is not a light rifle, a strong double thickness canvas jacket (or a canvas lined leather) will help support the rifle by transferring the weight from your sling arm across your back. The old "Tenex" jackets seen in many clubs are next to useless; the thin cotton twill does not support rifle or body, the shoulder pad is intended for military rifles with small brass buttplates not 1813 hooks, and the arm pads are too large so the elbow rolls. Ditto getting a good synthetic sling and a well padded glove.
Tim S
Exeter UK
you'll see quite a lot of Anschutz 1813s on firing points in the UK, I used one for several years before switching to a Gemini.
If your club doesn't have an NSRA accredited coach/instructor, I'd ask one of the better shooters to help you set up with your new rifle, ideally a shooter who uses or has used an 1813.
I'll presume that prior to buying your 1813 you were using a club rifle. You can start by copying the butt-to-grip and grip-to-handstop measurements from the club rifle to the 1813. This way your existing sling setting should be roughly right.
You can experiemnt with butt length if you need to. However, firstly, if the butt-handstop distance is correct (i.e. the sling supports the rifle), if you move the buttplate, you'll need to move the handstop by the smae amount. Secondly, I would advise aginst extending the butt by more than about 6 notches unless you are very tall (6' 3" or over). A long butt makes it more difficult for your left hand to reach far enough forwards for optimum balance without lying very wide to the target, or having a very flat position (remember NSRA rules stipulate a forearm angle of 30 degrees). If the butt is too long (so the sling is too tight), it can make the right shoulder tense (bad for consistent recoil).
When setting up I would initially remove the hook from the butt plate; the hook makes it easier to seat the plate consistently in the shoulder, but it can be put back on later. You may want to raise the plate a little to improve contact in your shoulder. The amount you raise it will depend on your build, position height, and target height.
The plate can be twisted to cant the rifle, or prevent canting. The plate can also be moved left or right, so it can sit firmly in the shoulder and the stock by your face. I would recommend leaving these until you have the butt length, the handstop position, and the sling tension just right.
Once you have the butt sorted you could bolt the butt hook back on. This should sit against the ribcage, by (but not under the armpit). It gives a greta reference point for seating the butt. However if the height of the plate (and therefore the hook) is not correct, the hook can act as a lever to force the rifle.
Finally the cheekpiece, this can be raised to align your eye with the rearsight aperture. It is not easy to do in position (Anschutz designed a more user friendly mechanism in the 1990s). The 1813 cheekpiece is quite broad, and may not suit people with a wide or chubby face, many 1813 owners have carved out the cheepiece for a more comfortable fit.
Rearsight distance; the rear of the yepeice is normally 1-3 inches from your eye. The precise distance varies from person to person. You'll need to fiddle with this until the sight picture is clear and sharp. If your 1813 came with an adjustable iris, use this to refine the rearsight picture (especially under different lighting conditions).
That's all I can think of for the moment for rifle fit. If you haven't got one yet, I cannot recommend a good strong jacket highly enough. The 1813 is not a light rifle, a strong double thickness canvas jacket (or a canvas lined leather) will help support the rifle by transferring the weight from your sling arm across your back. The old "Tenex" jackets seen in many clubs are next to useless; the thin cotton twill does not support rifle or body, the shoulder pad is intended for military rifles with small brass buttplates not 1813 hooks, and the arm pads are too large so the elbow rolls. Ditto getting a good synthetic sling and a well padded glove.
Tim S
Exeter UK
Doh, just lost my reply ! :(
Good reply from Tim. I'd just add that you should start from scratch and build it all up, but you really need a coach or instructor to fit the gun in to your position starting at the very begining. I.e. no sling, handstop moved out of the way, butt plate in neutral (cust canted about 10 degress). I have a paper copy of the full process but it's reasonably straightforward to follow.
Rob.
P.S. Where are you located, and do you have someone in the club who can run through this with you ?
Good reply from Tim. I'd just add that you should start from scratch and build it all up, but you really need a coach or instructor to fit the gun in to your position starting at the very begining. I.e. no sling, handstop moved out of the way, butt plate in neutral (cust canted about 10 degress). I have a paper copy of the full process but it's reasonably straightforward to follow.
Rob.
P.S. Where are you located, and do you have someone in the club who can run through this with you ?
Hi Rob,RobStubbs wrote: I have a paper copy of the full process but it's reasonably straightforward to follow.
Rob.
Is this paper copy in the form of a document you could attach?
I would be very interested to see it if it were possible.
Thanks.
Pete
(PS. I heard there was a basic formula for arm length - sling length - distance from butt to trigger - trigger to hand stop; to get a person started then fine tuning. Does anyone know of this?)
Pete,Wheelz wrote:Hi Rob,RobStubbs wrote: I have a paper copy of the full process but it's reasonably straightforward to follow.
Rob.
Is this paper copy in the form of a document you could attach?
I would be very interested to see it if it were possible.
Thanks.
Pete
(PS. I heard there was a basic formula for arm length - sling length - distance from butt to trigger - trigger to hand stop; to get a person started then fine tuning. Does anyone know of this?)
I only have it on paper but it's on my list of things to type up so I can distribute it to those interested. I think formulaes only work to a point. It's better to go through the process with a helper or two and build the position/gun that way (we are all built different and shoot slightly differently).
Rob.
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Albert B
Basic fit
Hello Wheelz,
If you search tor theads under my name, I am sure you will find one with a description of a basic/starting fit. It is only a rule of thumb to start from and then adjust in small steps (1 or 2 mm) to make a perfect fit.
Buttplate to front of grip:
for prone and standing position - hold upper and lower triggerarm in angle of 90 degrees, place buttplate in elbow against upper arm, forld vinger only. If they fit around the grip without bending wrist or hand, then fit is correct for prone/standing.
For kneeling: use the prone length and subtract aprox. 1.5cm (1/2").
Front of grip to contact spot of handstop:
Prone: distance front of grip to contact surface is equal to distance buttplate to front of grip.
Kneeling: distance front of grip to contact surface is 1.1 times distance buttplate to front of grip.
This is only a starting point, so adjust from here.
Albert B
(The Netherlands)
If you search tor theads under my name, I am sure you will find one with a description of a basic/starting fit. It is only a rule of thumb to start from and then adjust in small steps (1 or 2 mm) to make a perfect fit.
Buttplate to front of grip:
for prone and standing position - hold upper and lower triggerarm in angle of 90 degrees, place buttplate in elbow against upper arm, forld vinger only. If they fit around the grip without bending wrist or hand, then fit is correct for prone/standing.
For kneeling: use the prone length and subtract aprox. 1.5cm (1/2").
Front of grip to contact spot of handstop:
Prone: distance front of grip to contact surface is equal to distance buttplate to front of grip.
Kneeling: distance front of grip to contact surface is 1.1 times distance buttplate to front of grip.
This is only a starting point, so adjust from here.
Albert B
(The Netherlands)
Thanks guys,
My daughter has taken up Indoor 25yd prone with me and has been shooting on a block for a few weeks now and her progress is such that I think we should put her in a sling now. We tried a few things based on my own setup but the proportions are a little different.
I've brought home some butt shims (using all club gear) and intend to get her set up while there is no time pressure.
The suggestions are much appreciated and will get started using those.
Cheers,
Pete
My daughter has taken up Indoor 25yd prone with me and has been shooting on a block for a few weeks now and her progress is such that I think we should put her in a sling now. We tried a few things based on my own setup but the proportions are a little different.
I've brought home some butt shims (using all club gear) and intend to get her set up while there is no time pressure.
The suggestions are much appreciated and will get started using those.
Cheers,
Pete
My coach educatator was of the opinion that this process is only of benefit for standing and that this does not apply to prone. It is however easier to adjust in prone just with a helper, and the gun supported 'in position', so there's really no need to go go through the above.Buttplate to front of grip:
for prone and standing position - hold upper and lower triggerarm in angle of 90 degrees, place buttplate in elbow against upper arm, forld vinger only. If they fit around the grip without bending wrist or hand, then fit is correct for prone/standing.
For kneeling: use the prone length and subtract aprox. 1.5cm (1/2").
Rob.
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Guest
I 'think' that may only be true for air rifle (if at all). The advise however is good, if in doubt check your rule books, especially if you're making changes to your gun.Anonymous wrote:chAnonymous wrote:Gubby,
....The plate can be twisted to cant the rifle, or prevent canting. ...
I would check the rule book, but I don't think you are allowed to twist the plate anymore. In international I believe the plate can only straight up and down.
Rob.
Rule 7.4.3.1 (2007 USAS rules) - 7.4.2.1 (2009 ISSF) applies to 300m Std Rifle and Air RifleAnonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Gubby,
....The plate can be twisted to cant the rifle, or prevent canting. ...
ch
I would check the rule book, but I don't think you are allowed to twist the plate anymore. In international I believe the plate can only straight up and down.
Note that here in the US, we are under the "old" 2007 rules until later this fall (???) when USAS will have their rules updated.....
In addition on the cheekpiece adjustment ... I like to have my shooters fire the rifle with no rear sight and get the POI as close to point of aim as possible, adjusting the cheekpiece L-R/U-D. Then pop on the rear sight